Delegating to Bid Bots

in #delegation3 years ago

As many of you know I used to be against bid bots for the longest time. As they've come to grow now and a lot of SP is locked up on bid bots being used to advertise your posts and get attention on the Trending and Hot sections and it is made a lot harder for users to earn rewards for their content.

Although it is not something I personally like and I don't think its helping to decentralize stake a lot which is one of the main strenghts of a DPOS system in my opinion, I have decided to delegate my own SP to a new bid bot that will work differently from the existing ones. There will be more news about the bid bot coming soon but I just wanted to write this post quick for my followers.

I will still be curating like usual with the delegation I have and as long as I have it and supporting the @ocd project once it has started again from its current summer break.

I am hoping that there will be a change soon in how curation works as lately everyone wanting to curate has been in a big disadvantage to those selling their stake to bid bots.

It has not been easy to hold on to your stake for this long, trying to do what is good for the long term health of the platform and sacrificing rewards while most others are just maximizing theirs. Although I don't really prioritize money as much as some others do, it is not just about that. It is also about the future stake and influence over the rewardpool, knowing how many are earning so much more stake through SBD, whether they are just dumping it or using it to power up to have a bigger influence over the pool in the future but having been the first to drop curation or self-vote 100% to maximize gains is not something I am feeling reassured over that they will do what is best for the community in the future.

Anyway, there is a big announcement coming up soon and I hope the community will appreciate what we have been working on lately to make bid bots and at the same time holding Steem Power better without the need of middlemen taking a cut.

I could probably go on for hours about everything I see wrong with the current system and how its rewarding a lot of people that shouldn't be rewarded and how change is needed but I wanted to keep this short. I am sure most Steemians are aware of the same problems at this time.

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excellent initiative and very correct analysis.

Very interesting. This is a little timely for me as myself and a small group of others have decided to stop using bid bots. It is kind of punch in the gut to watch your rewards drop so much because you aren't using bots anymore, but it also makes you realize how artificial the gains were on those other rewards. Even though I may not utilize it initially, I still look forward to hearing more about your bot as things progress. It sounds like you have a plan that will be counter to typical bots. I will definitely be checking back for more info!

Great on you for quitting, feel free to use the #nobidbot tag. There are ways to make it without joining the bidbot bandwagon

Thanks! I will try that out for sure!

I think you are right. There are other ways to make money. Although I think for most newbies those ways are quite difficult and take a lot of time.

That's basically why I still struggle whether to use or not use bid bots? The con is that I don't think bid bots should be part of Steemit. The concept of promoting your content doesn't work like that.

The reason why I'm thinking about using them is that I can really earn money. At least I think so, cause so far I only did a very tiny test. But it sounds very nice to earn 10 times as much by using bid bots then writing posts/comments.

What do you think about my dilemma?

Well, you know, it's because in the end the only people that really benefit are those that go big on bots (advertising) and those that delegate and collect the fees. Everyone else is just bouncing money off a forcefield giving themselves an illusion of growth. I need to make my actual analysis post, I keep putting it off.

Nice analogy of the force field. I think the rewards are deceptive. I am only about a week in and it has been rough seeing my post rewards drop from $10 to $20 to $1 to $2, but like you said it is kind of a sham. You are really just moving SBD around to STEEM at a loss. From now on I am going to shift my focus back to powering up. Building my SP to be able to give back to others seems to be my best bet.

I am very curious how this bot will differ from the others. I do guess that it will be a mixture of a bidbot and a flat rate bot.
I am for curious because you don't like the idea and still decided to do this.
I can understand that it must be frustrating to see others raking in the rewards, while the most genuine people are struggling to climb on the Steemit ladder.

I will also delegate to a bot, but first I will need to get my own steem power to 500. The bot I will be supporting is a whitelist bot supporting the steem betting community. It cast out upvotes to people writing about their bets and keeping records of these bets! (@sbcbot).

But like I wrote above, first I need to strengthen my own account. Because the more power my account/vote is, the more I can support the ones, I do feel which deserve it!

Cheers,
Peter

Just found this post, wanting to learn more about bots here in our SteemIt Community. Thanks for writing it @acidyo.

As is apparently the case with you, while very new to all of this, I have been skeptical / suspicious of bots, in general. Given your apparent influence, looking forward to learning / hearing more.

Now following you and have upvoted and resteemed your post!

On the move ... Posted using Partiko Android

Yup its much new points in it i learned little bit new

Hello @acidyo

What can I say here? Don't even know where to start but the fact that it took you this long before delegating your SP means you really meant well for the platform and that's why you were able to held this long. I wonder what will happen when the remaining few good guys decided to delegate theirs as well. Maybe oh maybe, we, minnows, will all be knocking on your various inboxes begging for your blessings by anyway possible, or entirely leaving the platform for all you big guys. It is really unfortunate how things are deteriorating here.

Regards

@eurogee of @euronation and @steemstem communities

I'm new to steem? What is delegating?

Posted using Partiko Android

Visit steemit.com and read frequently asked questions (faq) section. Thanks.

When I joined steemit, I had similar thoughts. Bots seemed like something that completely undermined the value of steemit.
But I've come to know, that if you haven't invested in steemit, the chances of you getting recognized are close to zero.
Bots at least give you a chance imo

I don't believe you're selling out. It's adaptation and totally natural. Maybe that makes me an unpopular person sometimes, but I've learned through experience that if you're forced to play a game you didn't sign up for; you're best option is to win it.

Often I feel sad that so many are sticking to their guns and remaining predictable, meanwhile those who just don't give a damn will be even more in power... in that very long run that everyone is hoping towards, that I don't think (personally) is ever going to come by way of this strategy. I don't think there's any need to be polarized. It's perfectly rational to make circumstantial exceptions.

For instance, there are some bots that are just destructive only. The bidders lose, Steem loses, even the one's selling their votes don't make much. And then to boot, they have no filters. Then there are bots that are much more centric, and small groups that "act as bots" that are really run by smaller accounts making direct voluntaryist agreements off the blockchain. I don't think that's harmful in any way, they're minnows or dolphins. Each contract is individual. We just can't blanket judge everything because everything doesn't do the same thing just because of it's title.

I similarly feel about self-voting, if you're not a whale taking $500 for a meme, it's just taking a loss for nothing. Meanwhile those accounts will keep on doing that. The thought is ADMIRABLE, however, things are changing. The blockchain is becoming a multicoin, multidapp interface. How can we change the direction intended by every power that be? It seems like a battle lost for pride sometimes. Where do we draw the line between ethics and ego?

I am not judging what you choose and I look forward to your announcement.

but I've learned through experience that if you're forced to play a game you didn't sign up for; you're best option is to win it.

Everyone thinks they're on the path to winning it, but in the end we all will lose (if everyone goes that way). But yeah, that's not happening yet, but this is a slight concern without further information about how the stake intends to be used.

I have no concern, personally, for how another grown adult spends his own money — save they intend to physically attack someone, rape, bomb, etc.

That said, Steemit is not what people think it is or was. Find out now or later.

Lastly, I how a person behaves in their banking space, even though it may effect my fees, if I'm their friend or their fan, then I feel it would be very self centered of me to imply that I'm only his friend because he falls in line with my investment agenda.

So yeah, agree to disagree, no offense.

Yeah it sounds like we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's what you think it is either.

It's actually in everyone's best interest to make the platform attractive to both users and investors because one cannot survive without the other. Just food for thought.

Well, I'm not sure where you presume I stand. But you're right, I don't have everyone's best interest at heart. My heart is just not that big.

Further, we cannot make "this" platform anything. Steemit.com is just one browsing interface to the entire blockchain, and Steemit Inc has decided what it is going to do already with condenser, and thus what the results will be.

In addition, post-SMT, there will be THOUSANDS of new coins and dapps and users absolutely flooding this blockchain with all types of uncensored content.

None of the proposed changes involve the dynamics that folks have claimed are unfavorable to everyone, which means specifically them. So competition for the reward pool, capitalism, free market contracts, bots, self-voting, vote-selling, and more will all continue well through HF20 — except it will be 1000 daps and 10 Million users.

And my entire point is, that I'm a fan of @acidyo's content. I'm not a fan because of how his choices effect the Steem in my wallet. So if he wants to make a bot, I'm going to use it.

I feel smaller accounts (redfish, minnows, dolphin) are wisest to use this present pre-fork opportunity to power up as quickly as possible.

You are right. I only want to point out that self interest activity is not sustainable if everyone does it. That's what makes this all painfully.... Hum. I don't have a word for it.

But I don't think that's a reason to simply give up on calling out the behavior. Being silent is worse than being predictably against certain behavior.

And also I am holding my breath here a bit because I don't know the details of this new fangled bid bot. I imagine it's an inch better than the status quo though.

Whatever you wrote here is definitely a candid statement. Your following statement is a pragmatic approach towards a problem.

I don't believe you're selling out. It's adaptation and totally natural. Maybe that makes me an unpopular person sometimes, but I've learned through experience that if you're forced to play a game you didn't sign up for; you're best option is to win it

Seriously I dont think the bid bots are helping much lately. Whoever wants to promote a post need to invest at least 100 SBD to be visible on the trending page. The most of them are even used for the wrong purpose and post that dont really need to be promoted. I had good experience with bots 6 months ago, but now everything is changed. Hopefully things will get better in the future.

System needs to re-partition
Happy to hear news like this
I hope to fulfill my desires
Thank you for the great information

Looking forward to see what kind of bot you create, one that is programmed well might be able to help out a lot of minnows on the platform.

Absolutely.. This bid bot system definitely needs reassessment and the curating rewards should be more transparent... Thanks for your intervention....I fully support u in this.. Really proves worthwhile...

I do believe that good things are going to be happen soon. Yes, it was much needed to show the bots right path. There should be some two way policy that will give benefit to bots and users as well in a functional way. I am very much confident that you have a better plan for all of us and i will support it because we all love and trust you ACID <3

Nice to see you and I Upvoted you :) !
:
“I am not the potter, not the potter's wheel, but the potter's clay; is not the value of the shape attained as dependent upon the intrinsic worth of the clay as upon the wheel and the Master's skill?” ====> Stephen King

You've done tremendous work with ocd but I don't see how bid bots can help. If someone has an account an earns barely 0.02 a post, how are such ppl ever going to afford bid bots?

My point exactly

Accounts who distribute outwards let small accounts grow with no investment. In a place where there is no vote that isn't being sold then all accounts wanting to get voted on would require bidding. That initial capital then has to be purchased to get stake. There will be no natural growth of accounts from posting and interacting with people at the start. This would actually benefit bidbot owners at the start, but hurt the platform later.

oh well, i look forward to the solution that will be proffered to bot usage. I hope this goes a long way in mitigating the extent of abuse melted on these bots.

I hope this will help to level the playing field a little. So excited for what's coming!

Thank you for your integrity and all the hard work you've done for this platform through manual curation and @ocd.

I am looking forward to seeing how your bot operates and knowing the love you have for the platform I believe the project will be for the good of the platform and especially minnows.

Most people and especially the big wigs on here are all shifting toward making money from delegating their sp to bidbots or other services and projects. It is kinda hard for the few who aren't doing it to just sit there and ignore in the name of doing the right thing...we are all here for money after all. For those who have invested a lot of money in buying and stacking up steem as sp they are definitely going to look out for every possible means to double or triple their investments.
As a follower and a fan of yours I am looking forward to more information about your bot and its blueprint.

I am personally addicted to using bidbots. I started using them out of the frustration of seeing one's posts lay there without rewards but as time went on I saw it as a tool to power up part of my sbd and keep the payout as a source of cash in case of an emergency where I need to exchange sbd for fiat.
With the low price of steem though, bots aren't profitable at all...

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Thanks for your sharing ..sir I'm new steemit man please help

Color me curious.

I’m pretty sure you have very well thought over this and the bot you will delegate will be novel (not your usual bot) and may actually be a positive to the community.

Also, your maintaining stake in the pool is sound reasoning ergo... surprise us soon! 👊

I have not had very good experiences with bots tbh (especially since you are subjected to the fluctuation of Steem and SBD). When I used them I remember I invested 4 SBD but only had 3.9 SBD in return (at the very moment I made the transaction, I was gonna get up to 5 SBD plus 1SP, but market prices dropped it).

I think for everyone willing to use them, there must be a good understanding of them, or else it can be counter-producing.

Hope to see what your bid bot will be like.

That’s is great announcement!!!

there is a big announcement coming up soon and I hope the community will appreciate what we have been working on lately to make bid bots and at the same time holding Steem Power better without the need of middlemen taking a cut.

Wow. Great marketing there. Sucking us in with just enough information yet leaving us wanting more.

Thanks @acidyo. I look forward to what you are working on and your continued support for the long-term health of this platform. We have a tremendous opportunity here with STEEM.

I hope what you are going to reveal has the impact you a tempting us with.

I am sure you have thought through this deeply and i guess the bot will be of use to the community.

If it turns out to be of great use as i anticipate,it may make many people leave the other bots and run to yours.There are also a big number of people who just like bots because of their nature(profit making!).

It will be great news if yours will serve the people who generally hate bots....they will see value in yours and the others will be left...!

Waiting for all the info and details .

I will patiently wait to see your own version of bidbots. I have never used one (and I don't intend to in the future) because I believe they are generally harmful to the future of the platform. I can write a shitty post and use bidbots to catapult it to trending page which won't be good for the outsiders that might want to come to the platform.

However, it would be interesting to see if your modified version might make me change my mind.

That being said, are you in Russia for the WC?

I could probably go on for hours about everything I see wrong with the current system and how its rewarding a lot of people that shouldn't be rewarded and how change is needed but I wanted to keep this short. I am sure most Steemians are aware of the same problems at this time

i so love that part, and i agree so much with that sir, up to now i still don't understand how system works in curation ,curation trail etc. especially on how they pick who to vote. sometimes unfair , but wjat can i do , that's steemit politics

I am excited for the upcoming announcement , i know you guys with the icd team had been into quality post and contents, keep it up sir and more power ❤️❤️❤️

The hype is real :D

There will be a lot of changes that's for sure!

i think that the bots should have thier own platform like dtube is a platform for music there should be a bot platform and a real people place

Well well well guess we need more power busters like @acidyo to put pedal on high ending projects like this. The scale of the issue is big because take it or leave it, steemit has that issue to contend with, I mean not getting proper reward for your hard work. Let's make steemit unpoliticised. I support @acidyo all the way and can't wait for this bid bot to launch

Good luck, hopefully you can avoid the pitfalls the other bidbots keep falling into

You say pitfall, they say money. Jk :)

Yes! There Should Be some favourable Policies and Insensitive for the Minnows And Newbies to encourage them and Grow rhis platform! As there are Lot of hardworking and talented Newbies and Minnows which are getting Discouraged as they are being underrated!

Glad to know steps are being made to steer the boat in the right direction. I'm excited to hear about those proposed changes and I know it will be for the best.
Thanks for making Steem a better place.

Something to look forward about! Rather than talking about change, you are leading the change and realizing it all together. I can't wait to see the launch and system behind the bot. Personally, as a minnow, I do think that the bidbots are there to profit, that is why people delegate to them. I would hope to see a fairer distribution of reward in the system.

Ehh... Bid bots... How I "love" them...

Watching with interest, and with 200SBD ;)

Bid-bot business is the most profitable business here. One just need to own a bid-bot for this, other users will do the rest of work for them. Bid-bot will ask for SP delegation, which many users will happily do. Then bidbots will earn even before making upvote in the form of bid amount, send by users to promote their posts. Bid bots don't have any effect if the value of payout diminishes with the time. it is the loss of the user, not of the bidbot which don't have to wait for seven days to receive payout.
Beside this, bid-bots also earns curation rewards.
They are always in profit. Every minnows is forced to take their help in one way or the other. Even a whale have to upvote his own post or comment (though, they prefer auto voting or SP delegation to bots) to earn reward but bid-bots have no such necessity. An average user cannot upvote every time with 100%VP (as he have to preform a lot of other tasks also, other than passing time here) but a bot can always upvote with 100%VP.
Therefore, I will say that the bid-bots are the real player of this platform.

It has not been easy to hold on to your stake for this long, trying to do what is good for the long term health of the platform and sacrificing rewards while most others are just maximizing theirs. Although I don't really prioritize money as much as some others do, it is not just about that. It is also about the future stake and influence over the rewardpool, knowing how many are earning so much more stake through SBD, whether they are just dumping it or using it to power up to have a bigger influence over the pool in the future but having been the first to drop curation or self-vote 100% to maximize gains is not something I am feeling reassured over that they will do what is best for the community in the future.

This paragraph is key. @tarazkp wrote something to this effect a while ago. Interesting times ahead.

Well I guess now let's just roll with it.

If we don't get a change soon, then we will start protesting against bid bots again or smthing like that

can you help me understand , how is @OCD a different/better bid bot ?

I do not like the idea of ​​bots very much, let's see how your plan goes, you know more than I do about this so I guess everything can go well hahaha

I don’t think I like this but I think I understand why you are doing it. I know you are a good person with more than just your personal benefits in mind. I know we need people like you in positions of power at the platform and if you feel this is what it’s going to take to ensure your position and you can continue to increase the payout of quality contributors on the platform than all I can say is do what you think you have to do. I hope we can find a way out of this mess. @tribesteemup has finally helped me to achieve consistent payout by adopting me (obviously OCD was huge for me in getting this far). I hope in the long run more SP goes into starting new projects like these rather than bidbots. A change in the system could help, but encouraging a healthy culture is even more important. I’m still all about the #nobidbots, but I still support you as a person and a huge positive force on the platform and I’m curious about what this bidbot of yours is going to be like.

@acidyo, @jerrybanfield talk something about this bid bots too.
Jerry came up with some grat stuff and he release it today.

I have not totally understand it well. But i tried his system and seems a pretty good way as looks like a win win situation.

I hope u can have a look at Jerry Banfield post.

You are being too harsh on yourself, I don't agree with that last tag.

I think the same, I think the action would be better to say "adapting" or "testing"

@acidyo frankly speaking...when going gets tough on steemit bidbots are the only ray of hope for many minnows. Though i am not advocating use of bid bot but when user put their hard work on writing and its not been seen by any whales or big steemian they left with only option of bidbots...steebottracker gives a complete list of all bots and few of them are engaged in community development or some project work....people can choose any bots as per choice or roi.....looking your perpective of bot will be interested and will eagerly waiting for it.....hopefully it will be for minnow development.

Also considering the reward pool rape where many use bidbots to get their content on trending page would appreciate if we can put certain restriction on them....it will have dual impact on overall steemit eco system

I hope this will be something really worthwhile, because the platform is really very monetized. Now, really, few people vote for the unique and interesting content, it's strange that only 20 people are voting for my posts without bots, although I have 2000 followers. And this applies to everyone, as far as I know.

Ok si you are developing a new Bidbot, but how is your Bidbots different from other existing Bidbots ?

Hopefully smts provide an incentive for people to not delegate all their stake away to bid bots, what's your take on projects like steemhunt? offering rewards outside of the platform, until smts launch for a sp delegation?

Lol @ sellout tag.

I am excitted for this big announce coming soon. I can say it will be great. #makesteemitrewardsgreatagain

nice! Looking forward to hearing more about this new bot =)

Very interested to see the project you are getting behind.
Hope you are well

Very curious to hear about this new bid bot

I look forward to hearing more. I'm not against people using bots to increase their investment, but I think there are ways to do it with integrity. I haven't used bots yet but am always wanting to learn, so I'm curious about your announcement and hearing your thoughts.

Cool, I look forward to trying your future bot, how will it differ from present bots?

Hi Acid. very interesting. looking forward to your new type of bot. Seeing what it does and how it helps the community.

Bid bots would be OK if they had better rules. For now, they don't.

I can't wait to hear what this is @acidyo. I don't use bid bots, self vote or power down and it's hard not to wonder whether I'm just cutting off my nose to spite my face.

That's not the right metaphor but you know what I mean! 😁

It would be wonderful to have an alternative so myself and those in a similar position would no longer feel like we're missing out.

I hope it comes soon!

Hello @acidyo, I think that is possible to use bid bots and to preserve curators.
Some days ago i wrote this post, is My commitment to offering maximum curation rewards to my supporters.
I think it would be interesting to read it

I'm close giving in too.

Argh :(

I have to say that I am truly grateful for your manual curating effort so far. With your 400,000 SP you have been instrumental in quality control on the platform for the past two years. I'm serious. We have all seen the shit that appears among the decent stuff in Trending day in day out. As a community developer you've been unparalleled in the past 1 year+ that I've been a member of this platform and watching developments unfold.

However, everyone must think about their future stake on the platform. SMT's are being implemented and tested as we speak. There will be a lot of experimentation going on in the relatively near (I hope) future. Different models of curation will be tried and tested. High SP will be instrumental in deciding what will come of the long-term future of the platform.

Ett stort tack för det du har gjort hittills för platformen! Suuret kiitokset tähänastisesta työstäsi!

There will be more news about the bid bot coming soon but I just wanted to write this post quick for my followers.

Now i follow you... is a little hard grow up in steemit, all help is welcome.

Thanks for your initiative

What people need to have is self-awareness, don't be promoting massively trash content. It doesn't make any sense to "ban bots", what we can try, as a solution, is maybe a tighter control on what type of content can/should be upvoted. (and that requires hard work).

am intrigued @acidyo
I also used to dislike bidbots but that's just out of ignorance
I thought they help rip the pool rewards but I doubt it
I've only realized what they do when I started using them to get my post noticed and they normally just give me back less of what I sent them so there's no ripping off the pool reward on that part or is there?
Plus fyrstikken has posted about it and somehow it made it more understandable
which one would be yours?

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