dMania Controversy and Counterviews

in #dmania4 years ago (edited)

I decided to write the post, because I felt like it was important to show how two people can provided the same evidence, and come to different conclusions based on that evidence.

**Update **

After publishing this. @zombee published a post that dMania is being shut down.


If you haven't read @equ1l1br1um post it is located here: dmania-owner-zombee-is-abusing-steemit-delegation...

I going to take each one of what I think his main points are, and provide how I see each of them. I'm also not saying that how I am viewing it is totally right. I might be totally wrong. However, it is important to have additional insight for people who use dMania as well as those that don't to make their own decisions. I encourage everyone to only take what each of us are saying with a grain of salt, and make your own decisions.

I'm also not going to dive into accusatory statements that are based on feelings.
Excerpt from the post

This guy was probably a friend or a guy who he made a deal with as I didn't find direct connection.

Like the above statement I can't really have a different viewpoint than a person feels.

My Motives

I know I will probably get a bunch of responses that are going to say that I have something to gain from defending dMania, and @zombee, and they are right.

I recently just had to take my cat to the emergency room. My cat is 16 years old, and pretty old. Her kidneys are failing. I had to spend hours in the emergency room. While thinking about the fact that I might have to put down an animal that I have had for a good portion of my life, and dealing with the possibility of having to tell my two children that they no longer have a pet. I found a lot of solace in dMania. It was a way to pass the time between having vets, and staff come check on the cat, and ask me how far I want to take keeping a cat alive that is probably going to die pretty soon anyway. dMania was an escape for those "in-between" times that I would have otherwise just gotten more upset at the reality of my situation.

In the interest of full disclosure. Even though you can see it on the supporters page. At the time of writing this I am currently third highest delegator in dMania. So, I do get a kickback from dMania. However, before delegating 80% of my SP to dMania. I had it split between dMania, and smartsteem. I decided to move 80% to dMania, even though I was taking roughly a 30% cut of possible direct profit by not delegating to Smartsteem, because I think that dMania was a better use.

My Viewpoints

I currently at the time of writing this don't have @zombee on my friends list to message him directly. I haven't been able to personally talk with him. So this is coming from a standard user just with a high delegation.

If while I looked into this, and I felt like something wrong was happening. I would pull my delegation. I can bring in more profit delegating to smartsteem. So, in my mind it is in my best interest to look at the data, and make a decision with what to do with my SP.

Let's get into it

Here are many of the points I believe @equ1l1br1um was trying to make an my views on them.

Taking to long to remove abusers

Excerpt from the post

Some abuse that I have reported to him : One guy with at least 11 accounts who received a lot of rewards and was at that time ranked 3 in rewards/year : discord message zombee + another one with at least 5 accounts : discord message zombee. For this ones it took him like 2-3 days to blacklist them, even with the solid proof.

When I think about the length of time it takes for @zombee to handle the issue. I personally think it's an acceptable amount of time considering the life of the platform. I think about Overwatch, and how those guys have an entire dedicated team to handle abuse. They have had over 2 years of development to learn, and I still can't get people in Overwatch to stop telling me to suck their dicks. It even took that whole team a year to even implement as system for the console to report abusers.

Maintaining an entire platform when you are just one individual can be daunting task, especially when you are dealing with a technology like blockchain, and really plodding new territory. Abuse is always a problem in the early stage, so unfortunately I put up with it in it's early stages for those sick dank memes.

I'm not saying it's acceptable that abusers get any money. What I'm really trying to say is that it takes time to build abuse systems in place that can accurately work, and work rapidly.

The search for proof

Excerpt from the post

So I said ok, he wants to improve the algorithm, but it felt strange when he said this with the 3 accounts thing : discord message zombee and last week he said this : general section dMania discord - this was the moment when I started looking for solid proof against him .

When I read this line it reminded me specifically of confirmation bias. If you don't know what confirmation bias is, this is an excerpt from the sciene daily link I have included.

In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias (or confirmatory bias) is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions, leading to statistical errors.

This along with something know as patterncity can make really strong cases against things that might not necessarily be there.

Patternicity: Finding Meaningful Patterns in Meaningless Noise

Am I not saying that this is actually what is occurring with @equ1l1br1um. Personally when I read statements like the one above, it always indicates on my side, that I personally am going to have to do more data gathering. Just in my experience if you are set out to find a villain you are going to find one.

Viewpoint of abuse

Excerpt from the post

What happened after the dMania bot V3 upgrade and how @zombee abused the delegation from steemit inc.

Excerpt from the section

On the 1st of march, @zombee released the dMania Bot v3 - Curation by dMania supporters . This update put the users who delegated to dMania in power, meaning that users who delegated would decide which post will get the upvote. So if one user delegated let's say 10000-20000 STEEM POWER at that point, then he could control all the upvotes that the bot does, because how much you delegated counted also.

This is technically incorrect.

I did think that this might be an issue which is why I started looking into each of the supporters accounts (including my own).
On the upvotes tab of everyone's profile you can see who they voted for, and what the rewards are for. Here are the links if you want to check them out.
If you look through my upvote history it's almost as if you wouldn't want a vote from me.

Based on these you actually probably want a upvote from cnts the most. He seems to have the largest percentage of bot related upvotes.

Then looking through the dmania profile the bigger issue is still at this point to me is still bid-bots. It still seems like there is to high of a ratio of people getting rewards from the dMania bot that are also using bid-bots.

Multiple Accounts and abuse

There is three pages of content on @equ1l1br1um's post that I have attempted to distill down to a couple of sentences.

@zombee created multiple accounts, and the bid-bot upvoted those accounts. This leads some people to believe that @zombee was responsible for abusing the system with these multiple accounts.

Quoted from the post .

This 6 accounts as you can see in the links above are : @coindeluxe; @sinsister ; @puppet-master ; @terimar ; @ready-player-one ; @tank-girl

Also @garanger

I did start looking at these accounts, and my conclusion wasn't that abuse was happening from them. Of all the accounts in question have the lifetime rewards highlighted.

The grand total for all of these accounts is 137.73.
So the account in total made around 120$ over a 4-5 day span, and that was the only time this happened. So you are talking a profit of $28 dollars a day.
Lets take for example the dmania account that just collects curation.
The bot in the last 7 days made 668 SP in curation alone, and another 483 in benefactor SP. So the thing is netting a 1100 SP a week. In my mind it doesn't make sense to jeopardize a revenue stream that literally netted you 4k in USD in one week just to attempt to get a couple of account some SBD.

Even if one of the accounts did hit top ten, it isn't near what the bot makes on it's own.

I also looked at some of the accounts themselves to see what they were posting.

This screenshot of posts show some stuff tagged as NSFW that is just cartoons. So in my eyes since @zombee owns those accounts he is most likely testing the NSFW flag for content.

This other one is of comments left on a post.
I literally did the same thing as this when I was testing populating data in a system one time, but I used the lyrics to “Baby Got Back”.

Flagging the accounts multiple times is also just testing the flag functionality.

From my viewpoint this isn’t a dev who is trying to scam the system. This looks like a dev that is testing in production.

Under normal circumstances testing in production is bad. However Steem does not have a test system that can even remotely mimic the production system.
I came to this conclusion before @zombee responded to @equilibrium. From my viewpoint I take @zombee’s response as truth.

One criticism I do have is that @zombee probably should have announced that he was testing a possible new system for the bot upvoting.

I do get why he didn’t though. If you are wondering how I could understand here is a great example of why you might not want to announce stuff before it is ready in the crypto world.

However, for this exact reason it would have been best to announce that a new system was being worked on.

The Mining Script

Excerpt from the post domain running mining scripts situation and why I do think zombee did that to his own users ...

There are actually two ways I know of that this can actually happen without your knowledge. One, is that you can be using a remote javascript library that was modified at the source, and the developer wasn't aware of it. How to load a remote javascript library is explained here. If someone else maintains that script, and modifies it on the back-end. Guess what? You get it too.

The second is your hosting provider which @zombee actually did a better write up.

Why do I believe @zombee?
That shit happens all the time. Ars actually did a pretty good article about it.
Granted @zombee's wasn't ads, but there are multiple attack vectors that this can happen with.

In Conclusion / TL;DR

In some ways @equ1l1br1um does bring up some pretty good data points about the dMania platform. However, I don't come to the same conclusion with those same data points. Do I believe that the dMania bot is being abused? Yes. Do I think it is @zombee who is abusing the bot? No. I think that @zombee was trying his best to solve that problem, and when he was trying to solve that problem a number of users including @equ1l1br1um became collateral damage of that effort.

@zombee tried some things with curation, and they didn't work out. He probably should have told people that he was trying stuff, but I don't believe that his heart was in the wrong place when he was trying them.

I also really wish people would stop using anonsteem to create accounts. It just looks bad.

So where do we go from here?

Still waiting for @zombee to make a decision about the platform. I personally am for completely getting rid of the bot. Let @zombee keep his 10% rewards for build a great platform. To me, I just think that the bot is more trouble than it's worth.

All of these issues started with the bot, so maybe it is best not to have a bot at all.


@datapotomus. I asked, Dmania can not find me again, why?

No se como puedes tener tantos votos y ganar tanto por publicar cosas así, pero es lo bueno de tener una gran comunidad de seguidores.

Y que bueno que digas que es mejor no tener ni un Bot. en absoluto

Don't mind me I'm just here for an upvote. (Honesty is the best policy)

I think some of yall are passing over the most basic logic, forget all the points that were made or all the points that were not made and just think about this... I made this great platform "Dmania" and because a user is lying on me or misinterpreting the facts im just gonna shutdown all my hardwork!!! BS.. lets use common sense people..

Don't upvote yourself it's embarrassing. Use some common sense.

Their are others who upvoted themselves you said nothing to them, but my comment holds merit so forget all of that and lets focus on the upvote he did

i upvoted my comment for visibility purposes and its my SP i can do what i please with it.. this platform downfall will be others trying to tell others what to do with their SP or how they should vote... i was scared to invest because of things like that... now how many other people who may want to invest but they are scared they will be bullied? that will only hurt steem not help

Zombee just made a post about shutting it down. Discord channel is gone.

He has shut it down because he probably doesn't know how to deal with all the abuses on the platform

Thanks for letting me know.

Sure, touch base some time in discord. I liked your attitude. I'm in Dlive discord too. same name.

I can't wait to try out DMania!

There is so much to read and learn and understand here. I am still trying to understand and work with steemit. All these other steemit related platform is just driving me nuts. I will never get to do anything all day, just reading the trending post all day long. Not complaining. jUst whining.

great post ever.thanks to share with us

This post has been shown by @tenorbalonzo to 8700+ followers. Please check the @tenorbalonzo page (resteem service)

umm yeah right sir keep it up

VERY GOOD analysis with the 6 alternative accounts which backs up @zombee's story.

Excellent job @datapotomus!

Steemit should have a look.

good job

So @dmania is officially dead. Where do we go now?


This entity of abuse wouldn't exist if you simplified the dynamics of te steem ecosystem. I think we should be working to towards mainstream adoption and monetizing the content through this utilization of third party advertisers, not this stuff.

This is what a blockchain is what for! that users as cryptocitizens find the infringements and abuse and denounce, report to make this web better each day!

I'm super new here and don't know what's going on lol. Someone dumb it down for the newbie.

If you get fully up to speed on this one it will be a waste of time. There will be a brand new drama next week.

Oh, man... so true. NEXT ! Bernie's firing up on some Haejiniside... Popcorn anyone?

Conclusion: Aaaand it's gone.

You got a 46.43% upvote from @upmewhale courtesy of @datapotomus!

Earn 100% earning payout by delegating SP to @upmewhale. Visit for details!

That was a nice post and help full post


Very good information @datapotomus

I was going to write 'A Bot, a Bot, my Kingdom for a Bot' because that seemed to be the 'Must have' to get votes.

I agree that the Creator of such a brilliant and enjoyable platform,must be given the chance and time to implement necessary changes,especially as he/she is working solo.And to be properly rewarded.

But then you finished your incisive report with " . I personally am for completely getting rid of the bot". Hear Hear to that.

Upvoted and Following.

Hello friends, dMania Controversy and Counterviews should have decided to think differently in a variety of topics because you feel that there are important decisions to make in the conversation. There is a lot of important issues regarding the importance of having additional insight to not gori. Find information based on the feeling of not going through the molecules And the benefit of everyone, and everyone can see I like to see everyone talking about the importance of

yess.. thats right

very nice.. thanks for share

Posting yang baik, saya sangat suka;)
apakah saya bisa mendapatkan bantuan? Saya harap saya mendapatkan upvote di posting ini.

Terima kasih banyak :)

Wow..your article is so good. Thank you for sharing

Thanks for writing, my friend. I support your writing

Leaving comments asking for votes, follows, or other self promotional messages could be seen as spam.

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Good sharing. Very good information @datapotomus

Your Post Has Been Featured on @Resteemable!
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This post, with over $50.00 in bidbot payouts, has received votes from the following:

postpromoter payout in the amount of $338 STU, $744 USD.
rocky1 payout in the amount of $215 STU, $474 USD.
jerrybanfield payout in the amount of $64 STU, $141 USD.
upmewhale payout in the amount of $45 STU, $99 USD.

For a total calculated bidbot upvote value of $662 STU, $1,458 USD before curation, with approx. $166 USD curation being earned by the bidbots.

This information is being presented in the interest of transparency on our platform @datapotomus and is by no means a judgement of your work.

That's a nice data analysis


Awesome post. Thanks for the info and greetings from @ayahlistic

Awesome post. Thanks for the info and greetings from @ayahlistic

great post,i can learn somthing new from your post,your full content is helpfully,thanks for share this great information,

I'm barely a week into this new world (well, new for me anyway), so I'm not really educated about these types of things.

That said, I learned a lot about how things work here from this post, and no one can say that the author didn't do his homework.

Well done, @datapotomus convinced me, for whatever that's worth.

You got a 42.24% upvote from @postpromoter courtesy of @datapotomus!

Want to promote your posts too? Check out the Steem Bot Tracker website for more info. If you would like to support the development of @postpromoter and the bot tracker please vote for @yabapmatt for witness!

tienes tu bot. pero no se si te estén funcionando bien, por que veo que no te esta generando dinero.

you are absolutely right sir, and thank you so much for your information
I am sorry, my account have been hacked, due to my stupidity.
Please do not click on third parties website.

Perspective is unique and is rarely the same from one person to the next. While I have no knowledge on the subject (having only looked at DMania a couple times), I can say that you present some fair arguments. I'll withhold judgement.

Y que bueno que digas que es mejor no tener ni un Bot. en absoluto

you are doing right by removing your delegation.

the idea of the platform is good but abuse and way setup is going about it all wrong there very little good humor on dmania itself. upvoting bots is where problem lies. people should only be trending cause humor is actually funny stop trying to make huge profits off things.

Thank you so much for this information.

Dear sir, please help me and i am new user so i am very interested. i'm waiting for you

I am one of the happy parts of it @datapotomus,

Awesome read... so I am new (10 days) can anyone direct me to posts or forums about how this all got started? Wish I was here a year ago. I will be searching and following all the above links...

Postingan anda sangat bagus dan menarik sekali sehingga sahabat steemian semua suka dengan postingan anda termasuk saya lucky1001

Excellent job @datapotomus! and thanks for share it with us

very good analysis

I'm so sad about this because i really thought DMania would get to be the most popular site out of the steemit blockchain communities.

It had the most chance of getting popular as it actually worked.

Like DTube is super glitchy and also DLive.

DMania was working perfectly fine.

I am just sad that this all has to be shut down because of the mistakes that the owner is making

Excellent friend, good posts, keep up with me.

Thanks for this post.

Hey , thanks for sharing! i to be happy Always keep staying positive! Thanks for a nice post

Thanks for information

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Thank You! ⚜

Thank you for this viable information as I am about to post my first dMania entry as I try to utilize all steem-based app for the success of the steem-blockchain and my success as well. :)

Glad to see such a comprehensive post covering how the same data can lead to different interpretation. Unfortunately dmania is already shut down. But I would say, it had lot of potential to become the next big thing.

And coming to your point of usage of bid bots, I just followed seeing what worked for others. For some time I saw, if a post goes to trending page, then it may attract more views and result in more supporter votes. So that's all I tried along with some original posts.

Awesome post ! i'm in 100% agreement , giving a 100% upvote and resteem ! all ready commented on his last post . I also just finished my Farewell to dMania post if you get a chance to check it out ! following you now @datapotomus , keep up the great work !👍👍👍😀

dMania Controversy and Counterviews bast, thanks 👌👍👍

Hmm thanks okay 👌👌

Thanks for this post and I just wanted to say started a hashtag for everyone to share their memes and jokes #kfun join now

Big shout out to Zombie for a great platform

Why ist the only trending topic dMania, dMania, dMania on Steemit?

>--------- **AMAZING POST WITH FULL OF INFORMATIONS !!!** ---------

Don't mind me I'm just here for an upvote. (Honesty is the best policy)

You earned this tongue in cheek response:

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