My thoughts on Soft Fork v0.22.2

in Threespeaklast year

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My personal thoughts on Soft Fork v0.22.2

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First time I disagree with you. Yes, there are great reasons to do this, and I get your point for voting rights.

I even think that we should remove voting rights from the accounts that belong to exchanges.

The problem is not about voting rights, but about not allowing Justin to powerdown/sell his stake. It's just flat wrong. He bought it, and it's an investment. The whole point is to make a profit.

Saying the stake should be used for Steem's development is the most naïve thing ever. Even if it was a promise with Ned, the promise was broken when he sold the stake.

The way I see it is that Justin will spend his own money to improve Steem to get a good ROI on his stake, not use the stake to improve Steem for no benefit at all.

Now Justin owns it and he 100% should be able to powerdown. Even if it fucks up the plan for the negotiation, so be it, we fork.

If he is able to powerdown, he able to move the stake to a new account and vote. The stake was promised it would not vote based on the founders. That is fraud and I don't see why we need to let fraud have a chance at destroying the chain.

If I created a coin, premined most of it into existence for myself, then let others start to mine it. To help the price one could have made all these promises what that the token wouldnt be used to vote or destory the system. People invest based on that word. If I was then to go back on my word that would be fraud with the possibility of jail time.

This is very black and white. The founders stick to their promise or they are frauds. They didn't stick to it, so here we are.

But if he powers down all of it, at least we'll have a heads up. We'll have time to talk with him or make the appropriate fork.

However, if you freeze his stake, then you just stole his money. It's his investment (Justin, not Ned).

Once he powers down there is not talking, we have no power than to stop him. This is the same as buying a house with a lean on it, I would know, I did so once and it rekt my life temporarily. Just because you buy something does not exhaust the purchase of former obligations.

But Dan, we don't have leverage.

Even with this soft fork, he ultimately decides what happens. He can just say no if he wants to. Then we'll hard fork and there will be two coins.

Who do you think cares more about keeping one chain, him or us? I'd say us, and that's why the only solution was to negotiate with him in good faith.

There might be a sweet spot where we can use this soft fork in negotiations, but if he gets tired of the demands then it's the worst case scenario for us anyway.

I couldn't agree more, seeing as, he doesn't want anything else but to sell his stake, why should he be restrained.
He should have every right to decide what he does with his stake.

Hey Dan.

I hope things are ok with your family, as you mentioned you'd been dealing with personal issues?

Family is so important, and there is much more important things than steem in life.

I agree that the ninja mine was shady, and understand why people were pissed about it from the beginning. Plus Ned selling out without a word is what it is... It seems integrity is a dying art.

Personally I think the Softfork shows the power, and strength of steems governance. Defence of the blockchain against fraud was necessary, which I discuss in my latest post. It seems like we agree on the need for the softfork in regards to worst case scenarios.

Good point about the threat that if Tron had started voting witnesses, not to mention the threat of the effects of that alone but that it would turn Steem into a security and that would've created problems for everyone on the chain. They wouldn't have needed to do much more damage than that and still kept their "face" and pretended to accidentally have done so without knowing the repercussions in that example. Wonder what that means for the recent SR voting they did on Tron.

You act like this soft fork won't create problems for everyone on the site. If they are going to do that to the old steemit inc. stake, then they needed to do it to the freedom account. The reason they didn't is the fact that they all get witness votes from it, and it would weaken their hold on the witness position. If they truly did this for the sake of the site, why not step down after doing it. That is the only way to prove that it was not a move to solidify their positions as a top witness, and insure their massive paydays stayed. We should have a "term limits" of sort for the top witnesses otherwise they are never getting voted out, and will destroy the site. Who in their right mind would ever invest in steem again, if this is what could happen. As for the legal reason, I am going to say BS , but will look into it. I feel you guys are just throwing it out there to justify you decision with some disinformation. The fact that xrp has not been labeled a security yet, leads me to believe you are stretching the possibility of steem being labeled a security.

As I said this is just one threat that many didn't even think about along all the other threats to the chain of a majority stakeholder taking over the top20 and doing whatever they want with Steem and the future of the chain.

One of the best explanations on the topic. Thanks.


Another great one from the "Meme Master!" 👍

Haha :D good one

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Thanks, appreciate a (legal) point of view that wasn't offered to me so far. Learned something :-) Cheers.

Glad it helped!

After spending some time doing some basic researching it really doesn't matter that the shareholders (stakeholders) were notified or had a say, that lays with the fact the company was sold outright, lock, stock and barrel, when that happens there is no requirement or participation requirement of a board of directors, stakeholders or witnesses. That's under existing merger laws, as such Justin can do whatever he wants up to and including a forced merger, he can change the name, he can change how it operates, etc. The only recourse or obligation moving forward to the existing sharesholders or stakeholders is that he has by law offer market value buyout to every stakeholder on the platform that does not want to move forward into the merger with him. Now if Ned hadn't been the major stakeholder in the company he'd needed approval from the board of let's just assume he may have gone that route, in that case it would have had to have been determined exactly who the board of directors were, were they a separate lot somewhere at corporate headquarters or were they the witnesses. After that determination they'd had to go to all the stakeholders and get them to agree to the sell out by whatever percentage would have been stated in any by laws, if they were none greater than fifty percent then it usually goes by gaining approval of more than fifty percent. So let's look at this as maybe there was a board of directors somewhere in the corporate line of things that we didn't know about who held more than fifty percent of the shares, that could have created the needed over fifty percent whereas notifying the rest wasn't needed. I only mention it because there were many claims of high powered accounts powering down in the last year so it could be in the realm of possibilities. If it were the witnesses then yes the witnesses would have been required to get over fifty percent of the people onboard to sell. But as stated above the overall fact remains, he sold out lock, stock and barrel and in a incident like that there is no recourse other than Justin is now under the legal obligation to offer market value to any stakeholder who doesn't want to move forward with him.

As for this soft fork they need to fully understand the implications of that move. This has been all the way to the supreme court. No company, corporation, board, absolutely no one within a company can freeze another members shares for any reason what so ever. They can't even implement a new rule to avoid a stakeholder from doing something they don't like. Which was the premise upon which the supreme court ruled when a company in a bid to stop a stakeholder from selling to someone they implemented a new rule that restricted how the stock could be sold. The court ruled that if the rule had existed prior in a contract then the stakeholder/shareholder would have been held to it but since it did not exist the rule technically oppressed a minority shareholder and judgement plus losses were awarded. It's called The Oppression of Minority Stakeholder law but the law works in regard to any attempt to obstruct another stakeholders stake.

One other thing that may help people, this is in regards to the US and in Europe but despite the fact that shareholders think they own part of a company it's been ruled that they hold no stake in that regard, at best when a company is sold under any circumstances, meaning whether outright or by the majority voting to do so those who objected to the sale were entitled by right at the most to be offered market value for their stock if they wanted to opt out.

Hopefully everyone gets together and they can work out their differences, if not maybe this will give people a better understand of some basic legalities involved here.

I hardly doubt it will go to court, who here outside some on the lower tier want to see them brought into full compliance with the laws. They may even find it hard to find any attorney's willing to take either sides case considering attorney's who specialize in corporate/business laws (outside mob attorneys, lol) will probably laugh them out of their offices once they see how the system was founded and operates. (lol) Neither side may want the prying eyes of the legal system upon them, especially if it hits the news and the disgruntled masses who've left start ringing phones off the hook. I can just see them all standing before a judge trying to explain that the whole block chain concept is built upon the ideology it's a wild, wild west frontier where everything goes until, of course, .....


the legal system slaps them upside their heads and tells them 1800's is no longer knocking. (lol) Even if Ned promised he'd do this or that with that stake it still doesn't hold Justin liable to do it, at best they can sue Ned to get it back as I am sure that stake was included in the sale, a verbal contract can be just as binding as a paper one especially if those promises have been put out on the immutable block chain....I guess if that came to fruition you could label it a concept whose time has finally come. (lol) Yup ol' Ned could be forced to give up every nickle, dime and penny of that mined stake.

So far I only see two unmasked villains in all this and they could be hedging on a bet that others may not be willing to unmask themselves, like I said even if they did outside of attorney's who make a living defending the indefensible will try and pass this through the legal system. The San Francisco meeting will resemble more of a pre ok corral meeting to try and decipher how they can all come to grips with each other before an all out frontal assault happens in any judicial system.


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You think the witnesses are responsible for you not being able to blog? (Ps communities makes you visible now)... the irredeemables list is something Steemit inc is in control of.. maybe if you ask Justin, he’ll fix it for you 🤷‍♀️ But it’s not the witnesses dear, they have no part in it.

The only recourse or obligation moving forward to the existing sharesholders or stakeholders is that he has by law offer market value buyout to every stakeholder on the platform that does not want to move forward into the merger with him.

so in theory that could be 40-60mil$ and he would have to pay every one of the stakeholders. that is like 1mil accounts :)

Sorry I should have worded that differently since we are talking crypto's and not stocks, stocks can't be powered down like crypto's, in order for no harm to come financially he's had to offer them adequate time to power down their stake. The main concept when it comes to investing, in a buy out, take over or merger it can't harm the investors. The positive side is that with so much at stake here on both sides the equation is this could drive them to the bargaining table without legal recourse, I would imagine that hinges on the amount of value Justin deems those holding it are worth in their continued participation. Hopefully in the end everyone will find some compromise and appreciation for the value and contribution all parties can bring together in this new proposed collaboration.

thanks. i to don't think this would ever come to court. it would be really stupid for both sides to push for something like that.

i had no idea about the legal point of this.

Thanks for you opinion about this... you did address a lot of issues about the stake. As for justin, he did address that he wouldn't use his stake to vote for his "peeps" but he said the same with tron and just recently he did vote for 2 new super representatives. Let's see if he keeps his word. :)

Not saying it's bad or good, just addressing what he did.

he did it for a security reason and then withdrew the votes the day after, when the update was successful

Thanks a lot for explaining where that stake come from. I'm also supporting this soft fork and trusting witnesses is the only option we gave now. Steem is in their hands and they are doing something to save it. I hope all steemians will understand that.

Jeez I didn't know there were so many legal ramifications.

I did some basic research you may want to take a look at my comment.

Jeez I didn't know
There were so many legal

                 - drakos

I'm a bot. I detect haiku.

Nice to hear your words and voice! I appreciate your opinions.
I am butt a floating plankton here on steem as in the real world. I kid myself not to promises of politicians or Ned’s hair.
The shaved ball sack of Justin Sun and Ned would be similar IMO, both wrinkled and capable of much smell. And thus i expect them both to conduct themselves to there own selfish, smelly ball sack contentment.
A cock is a cock, do not be surprised by the doodle doo.

Very important butt plankton.

Yes, much butt nutrients floating around for free....very important It often seems.
This is not legal investing advice..... but Buy bonafide shit said the Butt.

What a creepy dude that @ned is. Thanks for the video, Dan

Hahah, I just laughed thinking about @ned being a creepy dude! lol


Great Insight. 100% Support this views. Let's get to work!

And yet these big accounts and witnesses are all going to the meeting with Justin Sun get their cut and he will take over. Regardless of where his stake came from. I am willing to bet that on March 7 there will be an uproar because of the things these great Steem protectors agreed on.

So let me get this right, you're saying we're open for bribery from Sun to let him kill the chain?

Are you?

I've seen you around here plenty, and to be quite honest: I trust you.
But can we trust the others?

Steem is a philosophical blockchain. It is not purely finance or purely for creativity. It exists to resist censorship, centralization, and the other issues that we've identified in mainstream finance and social media.

Treating this like a typical business is wrong. Even though it might legally be forced to be a normal business, that is not what the origin of all blockchains intended: Bitcoin was originally created to be a monetary token representing freedom and decentralization.

The ideals we believe in come before whatever is typically recognized as "the way business works."
We need to remember why we are here, and not elsewhere.

No and I find it pretty offensive he's even insinuating that. Steem has not and will not block any other accounts for as long as I have a say in it, the reasons to why we went ahead and did it this time for the Steemit stake is said well enough in this video and has been explained in many posts currently trending. There is no way and no money in the world that's going to come between me and the integrity of this chain in form of the above insinuation. Steem is worth much more than money to me and it is bigger than any of us here today and bigger than the project that acquired it in my eyes. After years of emtpy promises I am hopeful though that the stake will be used better in the future and that both chains can come out of this beneficial.

Let's wait until March 7 to see what happens, then you can shout at me all you want before that, this is in the air.

You see @acidyo this has already gone from your hands, the thing is now that the stake that Justin Sun bought is ninja mined and according to all in favor of the soft fork this is really stolen property and Sun should lose it and it should be returned to I really dont know who. All that would remain for Justin is to try and get his money back from @ned. On the other hand if you do come to an agreement with Justin Sun basically you are agreeing that it is all right for him to keep stolen property. I do not see any alternatives to these two, what would follow if the first is your course are possibly legal problems if the second a complete reappraisal of the honesty of the top dogs and witnesses on Steemit. Can you see the problem you have gotten yourselves into?

I can see how ill-informed you are yet still throw accusations such as those out there. I'll prefer to spend time answering people that don't act this way and have legitimate questions.

Ok, I just said what I think, I don't see you denying it, makes me think I am at least onto something.

You aren't and I am, see the comment above when I replied to someone not as accusatory.

Ok, again let's wait until after the March meeting to see what happens. By the way don't think I hold anything against you, many times I have not agreed with your concepts and have told you so, other times I have agreed with you, I am not as naive or arrogant as to believe I own the truth.

Some good points in here.

What a creepy dude that @ned is. Thanks for the video, Dan

ROTFL witness supports the SF.

Twitter is synonymous for flinging poo and letting things get out of perspective. Thing is, this was a deal a year in the making when Sun first went for Samsung. He has had his eyes on Steemit for just as, (if not) long(er). I don't think he's as stupid as some people believe. He worked on Ripple/XRP. He funded his clone, TRON. Once he realizes what he is getting involved with, I wouldn't be surprised one bit if he abandons TRON altogether and brings DLive back to us. Bwahahahahaaa!

Thanks Dan!
Great info for people like me that are not that familiar with the situation.
And great having you here staying active to support the community!

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Justin Sun bought with money but was robbed. And in excuses, you are a monster who has lost rationalism without a basic conscience.

Says the guy retaliating with downvotes on innocent users like @taskmaster4450 after crying to remove downvotes. So you do speak english then? I'm guessing you understand the EIP and just act dumb because the only thing that matters is earning more Steem, yeah?

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A huge hug from @amico! 🤗


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Thanks Dan for distilling the dynamics of whats happening with Tron/Steemit fusion, the players behind it, the possible legal risks and why its so vitally to protect the governance of the Steem blockchain. A real service to the community..

Thank you for expressing your good opinion on the stake. We trust our Witnesses & their support to keep Steem on the move. We hope for softfork 0.22.2 to help Steem.

dear @theycallmedan , a lot information issues you disscussed i agreed with you, my dear brother @theycallmedan you are 100% true, @theycallmedan
my good wish and pray for your family, as you mentioned in start of talk.

:) thank you for the details and Research : thumbsup

There are still several things that I don't understand about these new changes. But with this video I feel I learned more. Thank you!

That took talent and effort! :O Bravo!

I saw the owner for what they where 2 years ago. Shady, no real communication and a huge lack for action. Yet everyone called me an A hole. Oh well :) It's pretty easy to judge one character when you look at their actions instead of what they say.

Thank you for this explanation @theycallmedan. In the midst of all the foolishness I see "in here" far too often, it was helpful to me to listen to the historical perspective you have provided. In doing so, you have made it possible for us all to be a little (hopefully a lot!) more grounded in the Truth ...

If you are inclined to do so at some point, I would welcome your perspective on what to me is an essential business aspect of our Steem blockchain. Which Justin Sun presumably already knows about and has some plan for handling.

What is that?

How covering the cost of providing the servers hosting all of the text, images, videos, etc., upon which the blockchain is mission-critically dependent, is currently handled (wasn't the so-called ninja-mined stake sold monthly to pay these costs?). And, with whatever lessons have been learned from the past, how it should best be handled in the future? In this new "partnership" with Sun and TRON ...

If this has already been covered elsewhere, I would be very grateful for a link to it.


I really needed to hear your opinion in the midst of all the confusion. To avoid putting that stake at risk makes more sense than majority witnesses taking a random decision based just on fear of trusting what was going to happen with it. Now that this is clear i understand that it wasn't a decision taken without considering that the stake was never intended for voting and that it was to avoid a possible misuse of that stake. Therefore it was a wise decision? Whatever it is, it permeated across our blockchain that only a few could just nullify an account of simply freeze it. I strongly believe that Justin's attitude towards decentralization and his intentions are legit. Now everything makes so much more sense. Thank you so much for your take i this and i really enjoyed you analogies with a marine 😅. Awesome take. Totally agreed!

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Time and effort blogging IS money, this is a thought that I have had for a long time and with these issues, I am glad that it is finally part of the conversation. I think the witnesses are making lemonade out of lemons, stuck between a rock and a hard place.

What we have is truly unique and special so it makes sense to think that it is worth protecting. It rings true that this isn’t just locking someone out of their stake and I can only hope that we, as a consensus, stake based ecosystem, can spin it that way to the greater crypto community.

It is a tough message to express, but it makes sense since Steem has attracted many non-crypto investors through the years who deserve to experience some kind of decentralized digital reality.

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What a crazy situation. I hope it all goes well.

I hope this goes well, I really do.

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Man. It is confusing. Are we going to head into a hard fork?

Best video you ever made. I see both sides, @exyle makes good points as well in my opinion BUT.....a “social contract” can not just go away. Either Justin does not realize fully how the Steem blockchain works or Dan Misrepresenting the sale by telling Justin the coins were now his to do what ever he wanted with. In the end....I side with you and the witnesses because Justin does not own this chain, we all do. Justin can help us A LOT more than Ned ever dreamed of. Communication is key and thinking things through on both sides to a diplomatic resolution is a win for everyone. Good vid cuz.

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