ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! Let's all step back and figure out what can be done to stop LOSING STEEM USERSsteemCreated with Sketch.

in Project HOPE9 months ago
obraz.pngPlease allow me to begin by underlining and repeating a thousand times:

I'm generally not at all against using downvotes when it's necessary ...

INTRODUCTION

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... I'm also fully aware of how the amount of spam has been reduced, bots are no longer a problem and content discovery is simply a much better experience. However, it's important to understand and acknowledge that downvotes, though maybe a POWERFUL tool, the mismanagement of it can cause GREAT HARM to our blockchain.

And today I came across an awful situation, where a person I recognize and I've learned to value has been downvoted for the most ridiculous reason ever, which you could put in one simple statement:
I FLAGGED YOU, BECAUSE YOU DO NOT DOWNVOTE OTHERS!

Perhaps I'm exaggerating by being upset about it. However, simply because of DOWNVOTE ABUSE I've already lost more contacts on Steemit since the latest Hard Fork, than I've fingers on my hands and toes altogether.

Something needs to change, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

I got downvoted because I don't downvote people

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In his latest post @livinguktaiwan explained the entire unpleasant situation. And he has the full right to feel like the victim of abuse.

Imagine for a moment, learning that you were downvoted by someone with 850k SP because of the reason below:

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Quote:
(@transisto has been replying on behalf of @likwid)

Just please, let's stop here for a moment and think of the consequences of this particular mindset. How many of you guys are actually downvoting others, just because you can? How would you feel is your post would be downvoted - only because you didn't downvote anyone lately?

FEELING TARGETED

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obraz.pngIs this what we want this place to become?

Isn't our community already too small?

Are those behaviors going to help the price of STEEM to go up? Are we perhaps naive to think, that we won't continue losing new users? What about Steem PR? How do we want to see our platform by people "from the outside"?

All the marketing in the world will not help if user experience on steem blockchain will be painful and unpleasant. I've lost my count over people I knew here; which I valued and appreciated. People who gave up for that one reason - being downvoted for no reason or some absurd reason. Finally losing their faith and interest in Steem.

It's time to learn, that steem users are an asset to our blockchain. And those who join this platform often feel like they are being targeted. They feel that there is hardly anyone helping and guiding them; at the same time so many are willing to "punish" with downvotes. More often than not - without even warning or providing detailed explanation on why they were flagged.

WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT? Building awareness - that's the answer

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It's very difficult to answer that question. After all - how can we combat downvote abuse.

Perhaps you, dear readers, have some ideas which you would like to share with me in the comment section? I read and appreciate every comment.

I strongly believe, that building and spreading awareness of this problem is a MUST. It's important to acknowledge that the problem exists in the first place, before anyone will find the answer and solution to similar issues.

Right now I would like to ask you all, to consider visiting original post by @likwid - where the entire conversation took place. Find @transisto comment and try to find a way to convince this user, that downvoting others for that particular reason is not going to serve anyone. Let's remember to be polite and mature.

I hope I'm not asking for too much. After all - do you want to end up being another victim of 850k SP downvote? Simply because you're not using downvotes yourself? Is it not in EVERYONE'S interest to change this user's mindset. And do it without causing confrontation.

RESTEEM IF YOU CAN

I would appreciate every resteem, as I believe this topic is quite important and I would like to hear what other people have to say.

So drop an upvote (50% rewards will go right away to support @project.hope) and share your own thoughts. I read all comments. Always.

Yours, Piotr

Link to original publication:
https://steemit.com/steem/@likwid/how-to-use-likwid-to-get-your-rewards-instantly-into-liquid-steem-and-sbd

Printscreen:

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@transisto is just a crazy asshole. And I mean that literally.

He's crazy because he has no consistent set of logic that anyone can follow. It's just whims that he thinks make sense.

He's an asshole because he deems everyone who doesn't follow his idiotic rules as inferior.

Just expect that if your post gains visibility, he's going to downvote and make up some reason. If you expect the "reason" to be sensible, fair, or anything else a reasonable person would do it's either your first time dealing with him or you have yet to accept that there are terrible people in the world.

ok that makes sense now. My post was trending a bit, but he used bots to boost his way above mine (not that I was competing with him as I wasn't aware of him and hardly check the trending page now) so he couldn't use post payout nor bid bots as an excuse as I didn't use any.

cut the bullshit, nobody believes a word you say by now, and of all people you found yourself an advocate that is a scammer and a spammer? think better next time. cheers.

 9 months ago 

Thank you for this kind comment @nealmcspadden

And I'm sorry it took me a while to reply. I just noticed your old comment a moment ago.

Just expect that if your post gains visibility, he's going to downvote and make up some reason.
My own publication has been downvoted really hard. I guess i poke wrong person :)

Cheers, Piotr

 8 months ago 

Hi again @nealmcspadden

Can I ask you for little favour? I joined contest called "Community of the week" with project I manage and I would be grateful if you could RESTEEM it and help me get some exposure and drop some encouraging comment :)

Link to my post: on steemit or on steempeak

Thanks :)
Yours, Piotr

Ever notice how no one makes a post about an unfair upvote?

OMG I just got an upvote from (nameabigwhale).. and my content wasn't even that good.

We have to have downvotes and because we are playing this game without a unified vision or even goals... Everyone is acting on their own views of what is good and bad for the platform. In addition some people are just wildly unreasonable.

If you want to accept upvotes you have to take the downvotes and yes we are surrounded by humans who all have a different vision and different ideas on what is good and bad and in some cases (rare) even bad intentions.

Making posts about how you are a hero for downvoting or a victim from getting a downvote is just lame.

Accept the good the bad and the ugly and if you feel you are being treated unfairly, try to find someone to offset the problem.

Does Patreon require the ability for users to remove someone's funding when you dislike them? No, you vote with your dollars by funding who you like and that is the extent to your power. Downvotes are in no way a requirement for the system, that is a religious stance some are taking here. It is foolishness because #NewSteem is less populated, less valuable and has more disgruntled people ditching it than old Steem because the bot votes didn't go away, they just switched to the downvote control tool.

Upvotes are a way of supporting financially those that you believe are worthy of it and it is proportional to your investment, that is as far as it needs to go. No, we do not need to control how others vote, including self-votes. Why? Because your votes are personal decisions that do have an impact on the overall value of the network, but only proportional to your risk. So, people acting foolish with their votes is fine because the damage is limited to the amount of money they have sunk into the network.

Having downvote control is similar to a neighborhood organization that starts giving home owners rules. True freedom loving people despise this sort of domination over people, forcing people to do with their own property what the organization wants and not what the owner wants. That's not decentralized freedom, that's more tyrannical governance.

Yep, you are exactly right. The downvote button is a weapon for negatively much more than it is tool for accurately valuing content.

The downvote needs to go, or at least go to a handful of (paid) moderators.

Clearly Patreon and Steem operate differently.

On Steem you make a post and the audience (community) reacts for 7 days. They can upvote and downvote and at the end of the week, you get to keep the balance. That's all there is to it. If you don't like how it works that's fine. I fully acknowledge it is never going to be for everyone.

I disagree, I believe Steem is very similar in its overall purpose to Patreon. I have always thought that a mature Steem would not be as much a replacement for Reddit as it would be a replacement of Patreon.

Think what you want, but this open, universal upvote/downvote system has been recognized by Steemit Inc. to be a problem. It will either be changed or Steem will experience a slow death. Its a terrible idea to give people online that are anonymous such influential power simply for being well off. The solution is the removal of PoB for STEEM and to make it exclusively about RCs. At this point, PoB needs to be an SMT thing alone.

Are you really saying that you would like to do away with voting which carries a financial reward? Or have I got that wrong?

I don't understand why you think that removing a concept like proof of brain would make any difference ?

Steem-power-delegation is vastly superior to pa.treon.

Voting is basically worthless for the majority of steemians (small fish).

I'm not telling you an opinion. I am telling you how it is designed.

I get that some of the downvotes are mean spirited, I get that some of them are dumb. I get that they make some sad and mad.

I don't think you get how Steem works.

You can make a pretty picture about how you wish it works, but there are some pieces you just aren't understanding.

I know perfectly how Steem works. You really think its text storage is all that valuable? No one cares, for some, its an inconvenience.

Its the PoB system that makes it interesting. Still, Steemit Inc. in a rather recent post commented that it is unfair for a PoB system to be universal for all topics and communities. PoB how it works today does not work well at all.

PoB has potential, but its designed wrong right now. Free downvotes also tilts the atmosphere to a negative energy rather than a positive energy.

Also, I have explained to you why your argument for downvotes makes no sense. Your idea is the same idea made by neighborhood associations that try to control people and not let them do what they want with their own property. Its socialism essentially, wherein you never truly own your own property because others get to tell you what you must do with it.

The same principles are applied to downvotes. The only reason you want downvotes is to be able to hurt someone that does with their own STEEM what you dislike. But they really can't hurt the network, because they can only do as much harm to the network as they add to the network market cap.

Allow me to explain in more detail. Imagine someone buys 1 million STEEM and powers it up. All this person wants to do is upvote their own posts. Are they hurting the network? Nope, in fact, they are a net positive.

This person locked up a lot of STEEM, increasing the value of STEEM by reducing its circulating supply. This person cannot be hurting the network because they can only take the percentage of the reward pool equal to the value they add by staking. Every STEEM staked (powered up) increases the value of the circulating supply, which is why the staked STEEM receives inflation as a reward.

Now, you argue that they do hurt it by not upvoting high quality content. But they have no obligation to do that, and they are not really hurting the network by upvoting whatever they prefer to upvote because they are actually already a net positive by staking.

This idea that they MUST upvote content based on merit is a coercive, tyrannical position that is completely in opposition to the liberty and right of free action promised by decentralized systems.

So again, what is the downvote for? It is so that you have the power to force others to do what you want. Because every staked individual is a net positive, the downvote button is not essential. It does not matter how many times people try to repeat that it is essential, as a matter of fact, it is not.

'Proof of brain' is meant to require brain, not wallet. That alone doesn't justify control, but it does demonstrate how proof of brain and thus the rest of the network are negatively impacted by upvoting garbage. I made a post on this kind of topic here, recently.

 9 months ago 

This topic really seem to "touch you" @blake.letras :)

I think he makes a great point here. The downvote has been rationalized until its supporters are blue in the face but the reality is simply that it is far too negative to work as intended. The user metrics basically speak for themselves. Very few want to endure the negativity even if there is money involved.

Remove downvotes, user activity will sky rocket, more people will come, the price of steem will go up, and steemit,inc will earn more ad revenue.

 9 months ago 

Dear @planter

Thank you for dropping by and sharing your view on that particular issue.

I've visited your profile just to learn,that you never posted anything. And yet you have 10k SP. It's quite confusing :) Are you fully into curating only?

Yours
Piotr

Post about being downvoted, gets $20+ for post. I should do that more often. But, knowing my luck, I probably will only get like $5-7 for it. lol

lol, I hear ya.

If someone said my post was shit and downvoted it, I'd take it with a pinch of salt even if I didn't agree to it. If someone downvotes me because they say I shouldn't let my VP site at 100%, that's another matter.

What the hell does my voting power have to do with anyone on Steemit? What gives them the right to tell me what to do with it? Even my mum can't tell me what to do and she doesn't punish me if I don't listen to her.

I personally think it is a really ridiculous reason to downvote, but I happen to think several of our whales are completely random and have difficulty controlling their feelings.

Keep in mind these are highly intelligent but likely socially challenged people.

In any case we do have to accept unreasonable upvote and downvotes.

 9 months ago 

Keep in mind these are highly intelligent but likely socially challenged people.

Very true. Very true.

Once again thank you for sharing your view with us.
Piotr

Dear @crypto.piotr, thanks for your great work.

It is not easy to find people with a firm opinion and position in the face of behaviors such as these, in addition to having the courage to denounce and expose them without fear of being disqualified and attacked by whales who want to forcefully impose their point of view.

I have read comments that say that the reasons behind the negative votes is the health of the ecosystem and the good functioning of the palataforma. Honestly, this discussion demonstrates everything that is contrary and what it says is that there are people with unconsiderable voting power who abuse that great power, and vote with vague and meaningless criteria publications that simply do not fit their way of thinking or their particular taste . If you don't like something, keep going.

A discussion like this and an attitude of "gunman" not only frightens and increases new users, but also the older ones who find it difficult to attract traffic to their publications.

Great gesture friend, congratulations.

 9 months ago 

Thank you for your supportive comment @fucho80
And enjoy your weekend ahead :) Yours, Piotr

Dear Piotr, lets cut the bullshit and now,
you are nothing but a spammer and a scammer,
a spammer due to your transfer memos, and a scammer due to you being in charge of "project hope", a project that is nothing but a circlejerk run by 5 venezuelans, and to which you shamelessly claim a "100 %ROI".
I suggest you cut the bullshit and the whining, and start working for the real improvement of the platform.
Regards,
Jaguar Force

 9 months ago 

Look Jaguar.
You have no idea how project.hope works.

You think you are an expert and you are actually a rude vulgar.
You always make empty accusations without finding out thoroughly.

I have seen you accuse plagiarism of plastic artists without being true. You do some supposed "investigations" to accuse someone and look good before "GOD." I don't envy your work.

I beg you to stay away from us. In Steemit there are quite a few cases of improper behavior with which you can get distracted.

Jaguar.force itself is a true "circlejerk". The guilty parties are you. We use our true personal accounts to work. We do not hide in other accounts as "Crow" (Cuervo).

Piotr is not a scammer. Find someone who has felt cheated by him. Go, find someone who accuses him of scam and then you and I will talk.

Everybody that is anyone in this platform knows the quality and accuracy of our work.
So frankly speaking, I coulnd't give a fuck less about what you think.
Have a great day.

 9 months ago 

Just drop it @juanmolina. It's pointless.


You've got DRAMA. You are going to be a Whale!

To view or trade DRAMA go to steem-engine.com.

 9 months ago 

Dear @jaguar.force, @juanmolina

I'm sorry to hear that you consider our efforts nothing but "circle-jerking". You surely have a right to have your own opinion - I still believe that what we're doing is good for STEEM and I enjoy seeing our community around @project.hope to grow slowly.

So again, I respect your opinion - however I would like to point of that my current publication is about something else: potential downvote abouse.

Could you please let me know, if you really do not see my points valid? That being downvoted for 'not downvoting others' isn't mindset worth supporting?

Yours, Piotr

@jaguar.force I would like Steem to become more successful and gain wider adoption.
For that to occur people need to be able to accumulate and distribute Steem.
The oligarchy here which promotes flags as a virtue, is literally driving users and potential users away.
This comment of yours, it leads me to suspect that you are part of that oligarchy which is actively working against the success of the platform and Steem.
I doubt that anyone could be so divorced from reality that they actually believe that this pathetic behavior helping to attract users lol
you accusations against @crypto.piotr are so pathetic they could have come from @berniesanders or @themarkymark

I personally think it is a really ridiculous reason to downvote, but I happen to think several of our whales are completely random and have difficulty controlling their feelings.

Keep in mind these are highly intelligent but likely socially challenged people.

In any case we do have to accept unreasonable upvote and downvotes.

@whatsup, I agree here with the first two sentences. I don't agree with the last because you don't give a gun to a kid who has never used one and tell him to go play nicely with his friends. You definitely shouldn't give it to a person who has ill-intent. Where is the vetting process? Not everyone needs the power to DV.

My opinion.

Well that's a funny opinion. Who is going to Vett? Based on What criteria?

How is the open and decentralized?

I do understand that this is a libertarian platform and most people here don't believe there is a government here on the platform because it is "open and decentralized."

Who is going to vett is a good question. How can that be developed is another good question. Neither one do I have an answer for at this time.

Based on what criteria? That would also have to be developed. I'm sure some of you that have been around would have some opinions on it. Maybe the criteria is as rigorous as becoming a doctor; maybe something a little less intensive. Right now, as it is, if a person has money, they have the power to control (government) what happens on this platform. Money should not be the deciding criteria because the some of those people with the money have ill-intention or just simply have a strong opinion about something.

I say leave the DV that doesn't take away any money but don't give everyone the power to take (steal) other people's money.

It's a DPOS (Delegated Proof of Stake) platform, that means... Literally... those who are invested make the decisions.

Sort of like a business owner. Those who do not have stake invested do not.

The entire blockchain runs on that... The entire distribution runs on that.

It doesn't mean they are right or they are doing the right things, but what it does say is they have the RIGHT. And every user can decide if they like the system or not and participate or not.

It has flaws, big flaws, but if you don't understand the blockchain part... The distribution and management it sounds like you joined a platform that you didn't understand.

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it less true.

While your ideas are great, they do not match the Steem Blockchain. Maybe a bunch of you should get together and make a competitor programmed around some different criteria.

Again, it comes down to who has the most money and that shouldn't be the one deciding factor. What about time invested in the platform? What makes this not count?

But, my opinion doesn't matter here because I'm a homeless dude without much money and, therefore, shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion. Many of the content creators here, while they may not be homeless, don't have much money either; but we do bring something to the platform: our under-valued content that gets us little return on our time invested. But, hey, we're poor. So who gives a fuck. As you said...

Sort of like a business owner. Those who do not make the decisions do not.

This is my current opinion on how this platform is run.

I'm still here though, chipping away.

 9 months ago 

What an excellent and mature comment @tristancarax

 9 months ago 

Thanks for dropping by and your supportive comment @tristancarax

It's hard not to agree with you,
Piotr

''In any case we do have to accept unreasonable upvote and downvotes.''
I have two questions.

What is an unreasonable upvote?

And why should anyone accept flags for anything other than plagiarism?

To accept such behavior is clearly the death of Steemit, it needs more users.

if the aim is to de-fang Steem and make it irrelevant everything makes sense.

Perhaps some do want to make the blogging side irrelevant.
Many believe that endusers do not add value, so in their mind, any upvote is unreasonable, so feel self upvoting is unreasonable. All sorts of people have different views.

Now what?

I dont see that they want to make the blogging side irrelevant. If anything the focus on quality posts is harming the platform. Allow the focus to be on the connections made not this pathetic curation farming
They want to make the human connection irrelevant which is possibly the number one component.

''Now what?''
Get clear about how flags are used: Farming and plagiarism and abusers who flag outside those perimeters such as @berniesanders / @themarkymark and the rest of the irredeemable's

Its just not that complicated

And how will I enforce this on Bernie and Marky?

hold on here... if your VP is sitting at 100% that indicates you are not only not downvoting .. you are not UPVOTING others.

That begs the question.. if you're posting and expecting upvotes.. then why are you not upvoting others?

When my VP gets up to 100% it's a signal to me that I've not been active and need to get busy. You need to get busy engaging and upvoting others if you don't want to downvote.

Seems to me that transisto maybe didn't communicate as well as he could have but he has a point.

ShadowsPub
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I must inform you that since the last hardfork in september there is two separate pools, one for downvotes and one for upvotes.
You can use only your upvotes and have your dv power at 100%.
You can easily see this by going for example to any profile in steemd, where you have 2 power lines, one for UV and another for DV.
The issue highlighted here is not that she doesnt upvote, but that she doesnt downvote.

First, I have a life outside and Steem, I don't monitor my VP 24 hours a day and upvote whenever it drops.

Second, I curate for other communities, when I'm not upvoting other people, I am still curating and supporting others

Third, in the 20 minutes before you cared so much to check my VP, I upvoted 5 posts, spent 10 ten minutes writing a comment because it takes me ages to write a comment in Chinese but I still do it because I care about reading posts and writing quality comments

Fourth, the last I checked my own VP, it was at 91% not 100%

Fifth, and I repeat, What the hell does my voting power have to do with anyone on Steemit?

Apart from downvoting random people, getting busy engaging and upvoting others, is there any thing else I need to do? I'll make sure I pin it up in front of my computer screen so I don't forget.

you are the one who made the statement about your 100%VP being the cause of you getting the downvotes. So since you don't want to get downvotes for 100% VP and don't want to be coerced into downvoting, it follows that more upvoting solves the problem.

Since you're curating for other groups .. maybe leave a browser open with your account logged into and upvote the posts your curating? Gives more support to who you are curating and uses up your VP.

So since you don't want to get downvotes for 100% VP and don't want to be coerced into downvoting, it follows that more upvoting solves the problem.

Are you for real?

HF21 and 22 anyone? And you are on the board? FFS, maybe that's why @elipowell still can't figure out where the power up button is.


You've got DRAMA!

To view or trade DRAMA go to steem-engine.com.

!dramatoken

Be right back with a special honorary @transisto Batman meme but had to call it before someone else does!

Transisto is a nutcase though, the downvote crying aside. lol.

Piotr is just taking it too personally. You need to learn to take it with a pinch of salt.
Vote, downvote... At the end of 7 days is what is yours.

 9 months ago 

Dear @lordbutterfly

Thank you for dropping by. I've been trying not to take it personally and my goal was to underline problem, which most users seem to scared to talk about. As a result I got downvoted massively by few large accounts as well.

I really don't like seeing more and more users leaving this platform, because they feel targeted and have no idea what to do about it.

Yours, Piotr

Loading...

Ever notice how no one makes a post about an unfair upvote?

Ever notice how a street-performer never complains when you leave $5 in their hat, but they throw a fit when you TAKE $5 OUT-of-their-hat and redistribute it to the other street-performers?

How weird is that?

While I don't totally agree, I certainly loved this comment. :)

While I don't totally agree...…….

haha you know its exactly the same.

No it isn't, It's more like a week auction where people can bid for a week, but I thought it was a reat comment.

I have made lots of comments about unfair up votes
Most of them made by your buddies and their numerous accounts !
do you live in a cave?

I meant you don't see anyone say... I received an unfair upvote.

Not complaining about other people's stake and network.

Yea that would be right lol

 9 months ago 

Dear @whatsup

Thank you for your kind comment. I actually appreciate your feedback greately. I always like to hear people thinking alike - however I like to hear out those who disagree even more.

I fully understand your view and in many ways you're right. Noone does say 'it's unfair' that I got upvoted. But do we ever in real life complain when we're receiving gift? Or someone is showing support (that's what upvotes means)?

People never do that. It's simply against our nature. Wouldn't you agree?

However majority of population will feel stressed if they will feel targeted. That's how we all function.

And if at the end of the day our goal is to bring new users and to keep them here - then we need to understand that we're dealing with people. And being sarcastic isn't going to help us to reach our goals.
(by the way, i really enjoy sarcasm and I enjoyed yours too))

Just like you said: Everyone is acting on their own views of what is good and bad for the platform
I do agree, that we need to have downvotes. However at the same time I believe, that it's important to build awareness between huge whales that this tool can bring damage if it's being used like a machine gun.

Making posts about how you are a hero for downvoting or a victim from getting a downvote is just lame.

Unfortunatelly it does reflect on your lack of understanding how general population seem to function :(

Yours, Piotr

And your constant cries for removing downvotes showcases that you don't understand it is the only tool we have for fighting those who would harm Steem.

You have to take the good with the bad and stop yelling about the unfairness.

have to agree with you on this. Instead of complaining about the downvoting, engage in educating people that they are a balancing point for the platform. That sometimes people doing the downvoting are not always going to make sense but it's going to happen.

As much as I loath Reddit ... the only real difference between downvotes here and downvotes on Reddit is that here they will impact rewards earned while on Reddit they impact visibility of the post. Their purpose is the same and just as important.

ShadowsPub
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 9 months ago 

Dear @shadowspub

Instead of complaining about the downvoting, engage in educating people that they are a balancing point for the platform.

What about educating people who have power to downvote others? What about educating them how powerful is this tool and what are consequences to those who are being often abused with flaggs?

I don't think "whales" need much protection here. But those users who receive downvotes for reasons like the one mentioned in the post (downvoted for not downvoting others) need to feel that someone care.

Yours, Piotr

The biggest part of the problem is they wont be educated. They know how powerful it is and choose to use it indiscriminately at times. I suspect they are over-compensating for other failures but that is just a theory and one I prefer not to seek further on.

ShadowsPub
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 8 months ago 

Hi again @shadowspub

Can I ask you for little favour? I joined contest called "Community of the week" with project I manage and I would be grateful if you could RESTEEM it and help me get some exposure and drop some encouraging comment :)

Link to my post: on steemit or on steempeak

Thanks :)
Yours, Piotr

 9 months ago 

We may have different views on very same topic @whatsup, however I respect the fact that you're very mature and polite with your replies.

Yours, Piotr

I've never found that having different opinions makes others unlikable.

I think via discussion we can come closer to at least understanding another point of view and in some cases finding agreement.

I also respect others who can discuss differences without getting personal.

Hi, buddy. I don't really know what to say about what this person says, but it sounds to me like what a socialist dictatorial authority would say: If you don't like the way I'm governing, you'd better leave the country

But it would probably draw too much attention and I would also be a victim of downvotes. Which appear for no reason in my posts every time.

Using negative votes may have good reasons, but when I have encountered cases of negative feedback, the author of the post asks what he did wrong, they do not respond and when you go to review the activity of the account that gave Downvote ... notes that does not publish anything and ALL the votes it makes are negative ... well, that is no longer normal and I do not think it is done for the tar goods and the health of the Steem blockchain.

If you want decentralized freedom you have to accept the good with the bad.

I think the way many of those downvoting are handling it, is silly. It is their right to do it and the system is designed around it.

You can yell about it, or you can try to understand why, quit taking it personally and understand how it works. It's up to you.

Certainly, our world is not perfect and there is no "Paradise" without problems, I know that and I can accept that all things have something bad that accompanies them, but does not imply that I like such bad things and that I do not want their effects or manifestations are reduced or at least controlled.

In this particular case, one thing that I don't like very much is the existence of accounts with the appearance of bots of negative votes, those that never publish or post or comment and when you start to see their activity you find that since its creation it only emits negative votes without stop ... that's suspicious.

Although bot accounts of this type have not caused me many problems, I usually ignore them, but instead, cases of application of the "Law of the Strongest" in which a user with a lot of SP harasses, crushes and chases another user. I don't like that either.

 9 months ago (edited)

You're right @whatsup.

We must accept that we live in a world full of idiots. And that there are even worse idiots, who are on steemit and use DVP as they please just to satisfy the whims of that pair of neurons that they have in that place where the brain should be.

You're right.

Yes, that is true. There are idiots of all flavors here. Some downvote, some upvote, some refuse to understand how it works and demand it works differently.

Humans come in all shapes and sizes and intelligence levels.

I'm not saying I agree with many of the downvotes, I'm just saying that ignorance of how the blockchain works and handles votes and how it is designed isn't any better.

Wow! that was strong!

Well, there is an old saying that "God must love the crazy, because he has done many" unfortunately some of those crazy people have a problem in their heads that makes them feel pleasure in disturbing and harming other people, they are the ones we would call Troles, haters and (in offline cases) sociopaths.

 9 months ago 

Dear @whatsup, @pedrobrito2004

If you want decentralized freedom you have to accept the good with the bad.

Ehm. With full respect: there is no such a thing on steem blockchain as decentralized freedom. Word FREEDOM doesn't fit current situation. We're experiencing here more of a decentralized bullying than freedom :)

Anyway, have a great day ahead
Piotr

Yes. I said this four years ago.

Firstly Read Complete Post Then Comment,
He @livinguktaiwan Downvoted For Not Using His Downvote Power.

I read the post

 9 months ago 

Thanks for dropping by and your supportive comment @khalil319


Here's your DRAMA. Don't spend it all in one place!

To view or trade DRAMA go to steem-engine.com.

I think there's a culture of victimhood that makes it worse than it is, everyone has the right to upvote and downvote anything as they please. Be it due to the content or the person and relationships they have with various stakeholders

I'm not here to take sides I feel that is a waste of time, I'm only here to defend everyone's freedom to choose what they do. The who where and why of where steem is allocated is irrelevant in my opinion and trying to say who should have it and what they should do with it isn't up to us, but the individual.

I feel the market regulates itself over time.

I downvote every day to anyone who purchases upvotes and get my fair share of downvotes in return. I know personal opinions are hard to put aside and you have the right to feel however you want but I just feel its a microcosm of the bigger picture.

At the end of the day, we all just want to distribute the inflation that all upvotes and downvotes do

yes.. this is the wild wild west.. everybody can and should technically do what he or she wants.. but same applies to us.. if we decide that we find this behavior bad its 100% our right to organize something against those crazy downvote schemes..

Oh yes for sure if its a wide spread systematic issue i can totally agree things should be changed but this school yard who picks on who thing i dont see the point of making a fuss about

That I agree to. Flagging means "I think you should get less rewards" - and it's for each of us to decide why.I'm against "counter flagging" - but telling people about what happened, that is reasonable.

I never flag without giving my reason! I think it should be common courtesy! Perhaps a prompt when you downvote to give a reason or select from a list of popular reasons may help

Hi, @chekohler, your answer gave me a funny thought:

This is a nice paradox: having the courtesy to explain to someone why they have been flagged. To use an analogy in the physical encounter, it would be like punching someone unexpectedly in the stomach. Then you would bow politely and say gently, "I punched you in the stomach because I don't support your action."

The other person who has just been punched answers without resentment: "Thank you. I needed that."

In so far as both acknowledge the premise that one should express one's disagreement to someone with a measure which, precisely because it is considered painful, should have its effectiveness, everything is fine, isn't it?

An even more beautiful paradox would be to ask in advance whether the person I am about to downvote has the same premise? If he answers "yes", then my intention to flag him would meet with no resistance. The complete agreement to be flagged would make itself superfluous in this way, wouldn't it?

.....

 9 months ago 

Late thank you for dropping by @erh.germany and your comment.
Somehow I didn't notice your comment until just now.

To use an analogy in the physical encounter, it would be like punching someone unexpectedly in the stomach

Isn't better to give people explanation or not to give one?
Cheers, Piotr

I just was sneaking in as I did not want to engage too much in the debate.

I give you a reply I started later on this comment of mine, in exchange with logiczombie on his blog; especially on the given example you picked out.

Maybe this answers your question? - Here is the thread:

https://steemit.com/ethics/@logiczombie/q4z1zt

Greetings :)

It's a simple question.

(IFF) you don't have a reason for your action (THEN) you are by definition an un-reasonable person (a person who acts without reasons).

(IFF) you claim to have a reason but refuse to reveal it, claiming it is secret, or unimportant, or "just too complicated to explain" (THEN) your unrevealed reason is functionally-indistinguishable from NO reason (AND) you are therefore functionally-indistinguishable from an un-reasonable person (a person who acts without reasons).

By that logic no one would flag anyone becAuse everyone would claim innocense and nothing would get done! You’re basing your assumption on the ideal that we are all going to be blatently honest and fourthright which if we were would eliminate flags all together becAuse we all agree on the same set of rules

They ability to disagree using your stake is important or even more important than agreeing with your stake since you can flow capital into constructive action and away from destructive action

Oh, I wasn't assuming but only felt to speak about a paradox. I am not opinionating.

Organizing - I'm against "counter-flagging". But informing the Steem public about it is important and everyone can decide what they want to do.

 9 months ago 

Late thank you for dropping by @muscara and your comment.
Somehow I didn't notice your comment until just now.

why are you against counter-flagging?

Cheers, Piotr

 9 months ago 

Hi @solarwarrior

I just realized that I never actually thanked you for your supportive comment

Have a great upcoming weekend,
Yours, Piotr

 9 months ago 

Thank you for this amazing comment @chekohler

And I'm sorry it took me a while to reply.

everyone has the right to upvote and downvote anything as they please

Of course. Everyone can downvote anything as they please. However it's important to understand that there is no tool that would counter downvote abuse - something that is killing steem limited userbase and is bringing really terrible reputation outside of our blockchain.

ps. my publication seem to attracted wrong kind of attention. So many large downvotes. Crazy shit, heh?

Cheers, Piotr

It depends on your perspective of killing it’s killing users who want to spam, bot, content farm and now it’s showing steem for what it is, it id rather have a base of less abuse that is smaller than a huge base of free for all abuse!

As downvotes are killing accounts so was spamming botting and content farming killing the experience on a far greater level!

I think downvoting is a healthy equilibrium and attaching personal feelings to a system will get you nowhere! If people don’t like what steemit is doing then head over to a tribe!

Its up to the individual not the system bending every time a minority has a tiff

Hi @crypto.piotr thanks for your response and support to my recent absurd experience. Since I raised the issue, I have found out this type of behaviour from transisto is not un-normal and I'm not the first, and no doubt not the last one to become a victim.

Fortunately, having been on the platform for over two years, I've seen enough to not scare me away (though this incident must rank at the top) and know that this does not represent the majority of Steemit. What worries me is the newbies and minnows who may be targetted by these bullies. I know certainly if this happened to me last year, it would have probably threw me into fits.

I don't believe these people and behaviour can be reasoned with. Some are just born like that, it is intrinsic to them and can't be re-programmed, no matter how hard you try. That much I have learnt over the past seven months from the events in Hong Kong. You just need to wait for them to rot naturally. It's a long and painful process but we'll get there in the end.

Naming and shaming them (not they that probably care anyway) might help to speed up the process. But making sure more people on Steemit are aware of the issue will definitely help those if they are targetted. I know for sure from the comments on my post, there is plenty of support from the community and that's what keeps this place alive.

 9 months ago 

I really enjoyed reading your mature response @livinguktaiwan

Is there any way to DM you? I would like to get in touch with you. Nothing really important - it's just I like to get in contact (outside steem) with people I value for one reason or another.

Also if you would ever be flagged again - I will gladly help to counter it (since I'm managing @project.hope with it's 300k SP).

Cheers
Piotr

Hi there, I did try to find you on Discord, but I can never figure out how to search for people :-(

My id is livinguktaiwan#6787

Thanks

 9 months ago 

I also always have similar trouble @livinguktaiwan

I found discord quite complicated and I personally prefer telegram. Anyway, I added you already. Could you please add me too? crypto.piotr#3426

Cheers
Piotr

 9 months ago 

It's me again @livinguktaiwan

I don't believe these people and behaviour can be reasoned with. Some are just born like that, it is intrinsic to them and can't be re-programmed, no matter how hard you try.
You just need to wait for them to rot naturally. It's a long and painful process but we'll get there in the end.

I agree. For that reason I'm trying to reach out to those who use likwid services or following him. To ensure that he will lose at least some of his "customers" and supporters.

He already lost few. And if 4 weeks power down period will be implemented (instead of current 13 weeks) - then this user will be absolutely out of business. Because there won't be any demand left for his services.

Cheers, Piotr

@crypto.piotr, after speaking to @themarkymark, it appears that @freezepeach is the only account even remotely focused on mitigating abusive downvotes.

Please consider delegating a few steem to @freezepeach to show at least token support for their valiant efforts.

 9 months ago 

Could you please tell me more about this account @logiczombie?

It appears that @freezepeach is the only account even remotely focused on mitigating abusive downvotes.

I have very little to no information besides that.

 9 months ago 

Late thank you for dropping by @logiczombie and your comment.
Somehow I didn't notice your comment until just now.
Cheers, Piotr

Hello dear @crypto.piotr, it is a very unpleasant experience to strive to create a publication and then realize that someone decided to reject it with a negative vote for a reason that person believes is fair.

It also happened to me in one of my publications, maybe I am not the best content creator but I try hard to do my best.

https://steemit.com/hive-175254/@fucho80/can-steem-make-the-big-jump-to-the-top

ScreenShot_20200127070440.png

 9 months ago 

Dear @fucho80

I absolutely agree with you. Hopefully you don't mind taking few minutes and visiting original post where entire discussion started and politely sharing your view with this author about him downvoting others for such an absurd reasons.

Right now it seem that many people read my post, agreed with me - but noone cared to actually 'act' :(

ps. thx for sharing info about your post and @stayoutoftherz downvote. I replied to it already as well.

Cheers
Piotr

It happens to all of us and most earn way less and do not get a reason given for the downvote at all.

Posted using Partiko Android

I didn't know that happened to you, man. I guess Steemit isn't as free as we thought.

By the way - is there an abuse team on Steemit? If there is a user that abuses the downvote button (and the enormous power attached to it) or, if there is one that never posts himself, never comments but goes around downvoting others's posts and comments - is there someone out there that could put an end to such abusive downvoting?

 8 months ago 

It's me again @yvhobbit

I've just realized that I never actually thanked you for your comment. Big thx.

ps.
I would need to ask you for little favour. Recently I've decided to join small contest called "Community of the week" and I desribed our project.hope hive/community. Would you mind helping me out and RESTEEM this post - just to get some extra exposure? Your valuable comment would be also appreciated.

Link to my post: on steemit or on steempeak

Thanks :)
Yours, Piotr

Something needs to change, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

2 things that can be done:

  1. Mute should completely ban the muted user from the blog disallowing everything - comments, downvotes, upvotes. If someone out there has a grudge against any of us - we should be able to block that person from harmning us.
  2. Power of the downvote should be limited to the maximum voting power of the person being downvoted. That way if someone with 850,000 (or with 12,000) steam power downvotes a user who only has 15 - the downvote would be limited to that amount - enough to send a signal that someone out there didn't like the post (or the blog or the blogger himself as a person,) but that won't have the knockout effect when one sees his reputation halved and the post hidden for low rating.

That should prevent the abuse (or most of the abuse) that we currently witness.

One downvote from a whale can cut your reputation in half? How is that safe for new users?

As a new member with no voting power, I feel like I HAVE TO walk on eggshells around here, constantly in fear of a steemit ending downvote. I haven't been here long, but I've been here long enough to have seen people get brigaded right off the platform.

It's hard to believe, but this is how it works. There is a guy with the 12200 steam power and ~45 reputation, just goes and downvotes everything I post. Each such downvote results in a hidden post and a huge dent in my reputation. Since this creep clearly has a grudge against me, even walking on egg shells won't help. (I know that there's an option to disallow votes altogether, but I can't find it.)

Pay that account no mind, it's just trying to get a reaction out of you. Keep going like it doesn't exist, and you'll be fine. Also, I wouldn't decline payout on posts are comments unless you are posting content that you've gotten from elsewhere.

 9 months ago 

Thank you for your supportive comment and for resteeming my post @yvhobbit

Yours, Piotr

Here's what you can do. You can stop crying about downvotes existing on STEEM and make sure if they are unfairly doled out, you are there to help upvote the difference. This is one guy who has crazy standards, like downvoting a post for being too long. This is not the place to be if you are thin skinned. Go play in the walled garden of facebook if you can't handle stake-based governance. It's not for everybody.

What's hilarious to me is, you didn't even upvote her initial post that got downvoted in the first place with your @project.hope. You're just here to virtue signal. But keep sending out your wallet spam and telling yourself you know what's good for everybody.

 9 months ago 

Dear @joshman

This is not the place to be if you are thin skinned.
Go play in the walled garden of facebook if you can't handle stake-based governance. It's not for everybody.

You mean ... steem blockchain? That sound like you're admiting that this place is simply hostile and not friendly to new users. Wouldn't you agree that it's not going to help onboarding new people? And that we're killing this platform ourselfs?

What's hilarious to me is, you didn't even upvote her initial post that got downvoted in the first place with your @project.hope. You're just here to virtue signal

That wasn't true - I actually did.
I did use both of my accounts to show support with upvotes - however it doesn't really matter. It's not about me or @livinguktaiwan but about ensuring that abuse of downvoting power will be limited.

It's just sad that you took it this way. I wouldn't mind hearing that you disagree, but the way you did it is just ... kind of sarcastic and disrespectful.

Anyway thanks for dropping by and sharing your thoughts.
Yours, Piotr

Ye I am with you on this.
And thank you so much for speaking up about this issue of abusing the privilege of free flags.
Do you think it would be worthwhile to articulate very succinctly what is considered abusing the privilege of free flags.
It may be that free flags are being abused so much that we need to remove them from the available menu completely.

 9 months ago 

Thanks for dropping by and for your comment @hone.heke
And for resteem as well

ps. I noticed that your latest post is veryyyy old. Did you give up on Steemit completely?

No I have not completely given up on Steemit.
Still trying to find my feet/or direction/or something lol.

Its a very strange animal we have here. Many things to consider and many people actively hunting for things to take offence too, so they can feed their own personal warrior delusions.

 8 months ago 

Hi again @hone.heke

Can I ask you for little favour? I joined contest called "Community of the week" with project I manage and I would be grateful if you could RESTEEM it and help me get some exposure and drop some encouraging comment :)

Link to my post: on steemit or on steempeak

Thanks :)
Yours, Piotr

transisto downvotes for all kinds of weird reasons, it's nothing new.

 9 months ago 

Serious ? I didn't know about it @drakos.

ps. I've read your description and it seem that we're sharing similar interests. However your latest post is over 3 weeks old. Hope you're not giving up on Steemit yourself?

Cheers
Piotr

How about just go downvote 10 new Steemian who make a mistake and spam the place.... downvote them at 1% and let them know In a comment that your 1% Downvote is meant Only as a gentle reminder that Spam is Not welcome on The Steem Blockchain. How about that ?

 9 months ago 

Late thank you for dropping by @offgridlife and your comment.
Somehow I didn't notice your comment until just now.
Cheers, Piotr

 8 months ago 

Hi again @drakos

Can I ask you for little favour? I joined contest called "Community of the week" with project I manage and I would be grateful if you could RESTEEM it and help me get some exposure and drop some encouraging comment :)

Link to my post: on steemit or on steempeak

Thanks :)
Yours, Piotr

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WOW, you're attracting some SERIOUS downvotes!!


IMAGE SOURCE

 9 months ago 

Indeed I got hit really hard @logiczombie

ps. i've noticed that your voting power is down to 30%. I'm not sure if you've noticed that too :)

Cheers
Piotr

Thanks for the note, I'm just dolling out as much encouragement as I can.

I plan to delegate all my steem-power to freezepeach next week (leaving me with no upvotes).

 9 months ago 

Hi @logiczombie

Oh wow. Don't you want to be in charge of any SP on your own account?

Could you tell me a bit about freezepeach ? What do they try to achieve, what are their goals and also what will you get in return for your delegation?

Yours, Piotr

Loading...

"You are free to do as you want as long as you do what I want."

This seems to be the mentality of the whales around here. Which leads to the question:

  • How is this... Freedom?
 9 months ago 

Freedom? Such a good question @trincowski

 8 months ago 

Hi again @trincowski

Can I ask you for little favour? I joined contest called "Community of the week" with project I manage and I would be grateful if you could RESTEEM it and help me get some exposure and drop some encouraging comment :)

Link to my post: on steemit or on steempeak

Thanks :)
Yours, Piotr

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 9 months ago 

I presume it's not first time you're hearing about him @enforcer48?

I wonder how his business will be doing once @thecryptodrive proposal (the one to change powering down to 4 weeks) will be implemented. Demand for @likwid services will surely die.

Anyway thx for dropping by buddy :)
Yours, Piotr

He's an interesting character. A lot of us have worked with or worked around him in the past.

Doubt Likwid will die. Plenty of people wanting to cash out quick will use it. Unless power down goes to 1 week or instant, it won't affect business much.

This was the major reason why i left steemit in the first place. It is the big boys world. The world where small fishes are fishes while whales make themselves bigger and then perk on small fishes because they have the power to.

P.s: I sent a message to you on telegram, i hope you read it. Thanks

 9 months ago 

Got it @ajewa

Thanks. I wish to start fresh on steemit and i hope I can

 9 months ago 

finally you managed to set up your profile picture @ajewa :)

It is becoming funny that people who came to Steemit strived for Liberty, Freedom of Speech and Freedom of voluntarism in all they do here but be accountable for every action made; however from what that just happened, it seems that someone is too uncomfortable seeing people who learn to practice to hold their tongue (from downvotes) until much necessary.

I probably would not have easily downvote someone unless the content is really REALLY bad and the rewards were really uncalled for, or something I am highly not comfortable reading.

Most of the time, I just ignore that content creator unless he / she decides to swing to the extreme.

I got so many random downvotes from painstakingly well-thought, image edited for best viewing posts that I already am numb by these push-overs.

There will always bee push-overs, and what they do, they will have to answer to all their actions at the end of their journey called life.

 9 months ago (edited)

Late "thank you" for your awesome comment @littlenewthings

ps. bloody hell, my own publication seem to bring some unwanted attention and has been flagged really heavily. did you notice?

Yours, Piotr

Until there is skin in the game, those that go beyond down voting plagiarism and posts that fail to meet terms of service will continue to abuse their privilege. There should be a penalty to down vote something that doesn't warrant a down vote.

There's a large responsibility to having an account large enough to make significant damage to likely as many as half of the users at one time. Many of the mechanisms that led to down vote abuse have been curbed to a healthy level. Putting an onis on services that claim to be and are intended to prevent abuse that become abusive themselves would have an effect on abusive down voting.

 9 months ago (edited)

Thanks for dropping by and for your comment @thedrollyears

ps. I noticed that your latest post is veryyyy old. Did you give up on Steemit completely?

Not at all. I'm impressed with the positive evolution Steemit has shown. I think once SMT are in effect it may even be time for a second to around of me inviting all of the people that never joined Steemit when I first discovered it and saw its enormous potential. I don't have the time to put a lot of effort towards posting. The posts that I made were fun art collaborations and the full intention of doing them was to earn steem to share with @gardenofeden. When they stopped earning steem it seemed too much time was being put into the creations.

 9 months ago 

I'm glad to see that you're so responsive @thedrollyears :)

 8 months ago 

It's me again @thedrollyears

I just realized that I never actually thanked you for your comment. Big thx.

ps.
I would need to ask you for little favour. Recently I've decided to join small contest called "Community of the week" and I desribed our project.hope hive/community. Would you mind helping me out and RESTEEM this post - just to get some extra exposure? Your valuable comment would be also appreciated.

Link to my post: on steemit or on steempeak

Thanks :)
Yours, Piotr

Building awareness - that's the answer

Awareness could come only when the guys with a lot of upvote power (which means big stake) become aware that destroying the platform will destroy their investment.

On February 1st 2018 we had 705,537 accounts

On February 1st 2019 we had 1,210.615 accounts

On February 1st 2020 we have 1,359,486 accounts

I’m afraid the number of true users is far smaller than accounts number, and it has fallen since “the Big Fall” in 2018. No platform can grow without widening its user base.

I’m currently working on a dictionary that doesn’t leave me much free time, but as soon as I finish it, I’ll try to post a text about the construction of a decentralized platform on a foundation that should prevent abuse as much as it would be possible, using the experiences from the decentralized platforms made so far.

Cheers, @crypto.piotr

 9 months ago 

Hi @lighteye

I only realized now that I never actually thanked you for your comment. BIG THX :)

Awareness could come only when the guys with a lot of upvote power (which means big stake) become aware that destroying the platform will destroy their investment.

You nailed it!

as soon as I finish it, I’ll try to post a text about the construction of a decentralized platform on a foundation that should prevent abuse as much as it would be possible, using the experiences from the decentralized platforms made so far.

Share link with me. I will gladly upvote it with @project.hope (300k) and share with our own HIVE.

Yours,
Piotr

You’ll be first to know when I put the text up, but don’t hold your breath for some time while I’m working on the dictionary :)

 9 months ago 

I'm very curious - what kind of dictionary are you working on @lighteye?

I thought that in current days all dictionaries have been already 'invented'.

Cheers,
Piotr

It’s a Vocabulary of the Geographical Terminology, @crypto.piotr. Pretty painstaking job.

 9 months ago 

It's me again @lighteye
(I just dropped another comment, don't miss it :P)

I would like to ask if there is any way we could DM you? I wanted to talk to you a bit about some idea I'm pursuing with few guys from @project.hope.
I think that you may find it interesting. Do you use telegram or discord by any chance? My discord: crypto.piotr#3426

Cheers
Piotr

Thanks for this bold and outspoken post. I find such reason for downvote insane and brash. Resteemed.