The Future of Pocket

in #pocket4 years ago


I just chanced upon a little conversation in the comments of @pocket-pi's latest Pocket statistics post (If you want to support Pocket, you should check it out and upvote!).

@cryptick left this comment:


Screenshot 2017-10-30 22.22.09.png

saying "Could we send [Pocket] as a type of second curation reward?"

This led me to ponder if it would be appropriate to update the POCKET protocol to do more things. I'm writing this post to talk about what kinds up updates would be ok, as well as a few things that I think we need to be certain to avoid.

What is the Pocket Protocol?

First, a tiny bit of background. The Pocket protocol is a document, a set of rules, that determine what kinds of Steem operations have what kind of effect on the Pocket system. When you submit a pocketsend command in a comment, it's the Pocket protocol that decides whether your command is valid or not. The bots you see confirming Pocket transactions (mostly @pocket-pi these days) are running Python code that I wrote (you can run it too!) that checks each Steem operation to see whether it matches the Pocket protocol and is thus a valid Pocket operation. If you want the high-level picture, read my meta-subchain post.

When I first wrote the Pocket protocol, I imagined that it would never change. I'd been involved in cryptocurrency projects where the people in charge were overly-flippant about their authority to change the rules that governed the systems, and there were many times that they decided to change things that alienated a lot of people. So when I originally wrote the protocol, my thought was that it would never change. Maybe people would come along and decide they could do better and copy it and do something else with it, but POCKET would always be POCKET.

What would be an appropriate upgrade for Pocket?

So, let's just suppose for an instant that we wanted to make some change to the Pocket protocol. What kind of change would be acceptable?

For me to support a modification of the Pocket protocol, I would have to be fairly convinced that (sorry, gotta go economist-speak for a bit) the change would Pareto-improve Pocket. This means it wouldn't make anybody worse off, and some people would for sure be better off.

An Example

Here is an example of a very simple Pareto-improving modification: give people the ability to transfer some of their Pocket into a "savings" account that is controlled by their Steem account's active key. One way to implement this would be to introduce a command that is executed by transferring SBD/STEEM to yourself, with a memo that says pocketvault:1000 -- this would mean "transfer 1000 POCKET to my personal savings account." Then if you wanted to withdraw your Pocket tokens from your savings account, you'd send a transaction to yourself with a memo that says pocketunvault:1000. Or something like that.

  • Who would benefit? Anybody who doesn't want their posting key controlling their POCKET tokens.
  • Would anybody be worse off? Only thieves would be worse off. Anybody who doesn't care about posting vs active authorities would just keep on using Pocket in the same way as always.

I have a vague feeling that something like @cryptick's idea about using Pocket as a curation reward could possibly be Pareto-improving.

What would be a bad upgrade for Pocket?

Here, we'd have to come up with a decent way of describing what it means for a Pocket user to be worse off. I think it's fairly reasonable to say that "subjectively" worse-off counts here, so in my mind this means for example that we should not do anything which increases the total token supply. Why? Because in the world of cryptocurrencies, people tend to believe inflation is evil (never mind the fact that almost all cryptocurrencies are inflationary). Since many of the holders of Pocket tokens are those people, I don't want to invite their ire by adding some kind of inflationary model to what was a token system with a static supply.

Another example of a bad upgrade might be a change to the fee for submitting a pocketsend. If the fee were increased, that would make people worse off who are sending Pocket tokens around, even though it could indirectly make everybody better off by increasing the incentive for confirmation bots to operate.

Is there a gray area?

Are there changes that are beneficial that might make people subjectively worse off but we can't agree on whether it's true? My approach in this case would just be to leave it well enough alone. Pocket is an experiment, let's let it run its course!

For more information

And as always, if you need a Bitshares account so you can trade POCKET IOU tokens issued by @virtualgrowth, you can sign up for Bitshares using this link.

Sort:  

Hi @biophil i just heard about this. Is it still possible to claim the free tokens?

pocketsend:[email protected], but here are a few to get you started.

thanks :)

Successful Send of 501
Sending Account: biophil
Receiving Account: darsico
New sending account balance: 824261
New receiving account balance: 500
Fee: 1
Steem trxid: 6f4f15a399a002200f809745b08060ab366c3933
Thanks for using POCKET! I am small bot and right now I am running this code.

Not any more. But if you want some, you can get them by following my links up above. Also check out @classifieds, they've been brokering sales of Pocket tokens.

Thank you for this great work and for this great post @biophil this is a major upgrade for the pocket protocol that must be done to give it more security since there is a lot of services here on #steemit that use private posting key and who knows what the future is hiding for #pocket and for us

Can i know what is pocket mean bcz i am a new steemit user and don't have any idea about this pocket!

Pocket is token started by @biophil that runs on steem blockchain. Read articles linked in For more information section of above post if you want to know more about it.

No upgrade yet!

Hey btw how many pocket do you have? I mean spread across all your accounts?

I agree that having them as a curation reward would increase their utility and hopefully begin to increase their worth - fixed supply, people would want them and there would be a direct link between the value of Pocket and the value of steem so a secondary market could come into being

I was concerned re leaving them open for someone with my posting key to steal and didn’t see any reason to leave them here and so transferred a million or so to bitshares a few days ago.

They have’t arrived In bitshares yet - can anyone help with this?

https://steemit.com/pocket/@virtualgrowth/exchanging-pocket-between-steem-and-bitshares-read-to-send-pocket-to-bitshares#@holbein81/re-virtualgrowth-exchanging-pocket-between-steem-and-bitshares-read-to-send-pocket-to-bitshares-20171029t072551578z

Contact @virtualgrowth directly about that.

Also just be aware that transferring them to Bitshares means that you're trusting @pocketexchange to keep them secure. The token on Bitshares is only an IOU.

As suggested they could be used as curation rewards from a team. Another idea is to use them to buy upvotes, but that needs to be established. Like e.g. rando or booster one could send pockets to e.g. 'pocketwhale' to get upvote.
Probably not many users use then right now. I sent all my pocket tokens to bitshares. So I distributed some to ppl on bitshares. Was not sure how to use them here. Now I need to send some back ;-)
Nevertheless I'll try to resteem pocket related posts to get them more visibility
Thanks J

A "pocketwhale" voting bot would be pretty easy to code up.

And it has been done @pocket-x

Can we organize internal exchange pocket<-->steem on blockchain?

Yes we can. But question is, should it be a part of Pocket Protocol? Or only one of independent applications of Pocket system?

We actually can't do this as part of the protocol, at least not that I know of -- because Steem doesn't "know" about Pocket tokens.

Of course. I did not mean integration with steem wallet. But I can imagine that with some new commands as pocketlistasks, pocketlistbids, pocketbuyoffer, pocketselloffer and some others it can be build on using comments/SBD transfers and confirming bots only. I do not believe it is good idea though. It would be ugly and extreme spamish :-). And for sure it would have a lot of other disadvantages.

But it would be relatively easy - both to build and use :-).

I'm not a coder and can say stupid things...
Bit IIRC Pocket has its own blockchain. Could we place the logic there?

No. Pocket uses Steem blockchain. And a concept of subchain to to be precise.

It's harder than it sounds, at least it's hard to make it really work well. I thought about this a lot, because it would have added a lot of cool functionality. But we'd run into all the same problems that the Counterparty guys did when they tried to do that with BTC/XCP.

To run a real market book, the Pocket protocol would need to be able to control STEEM, which it can't. We could possibly do something much simpler than a market book where I post a personal offer to sell Pocket for STEEM, and the first person to send me STEEM with a particular something in the memo gets the Pocket. But that's just automated one-way escrow, and it has all sorts of its own problems to deal with.

Or another type of bot. A want to sell POCKET for Steem and sends them too a bot with a command in memo:
pocketsend;[email protected],10 STEEM
The bot waits for a transfer of the amount specified in the memo. B make a Steem transfer to the bot with @A as memo, the bot transfers the POCKET tokens to B and STEEM to A, takes a fee if needed. If no transfer has been done after X days, then POCKET tokens are refunded.

A can advertise the offer. The bot can reply to commands and can also have a presence on Discord for listing all available offers.

I've put my thoughts into a post about the future of our PTs....

https://steemit.com/pocket/@jackmiller/pocket-tokens-and-smts-to-fork-or-not-to-fork-that-is-the-question

Think it is time WE Pocket Token owners start discussing this, or we can wait and just go with the flow and just be another subtoken on the Steemit Blockchain.

I'd say we're better off leaving Pockets as the only internal currency which can be spent only with a posting key, but that can still be true.
Vaulting would just give us the option to protect them.
(Particularly since posting keys are often supplied to autovoters and other such services).
On an unrelated note, those silver coins we discussed have all been delivered and I'd like to look at claiming/tracking them on chain.
For privacy reasons, it'd be best to keep the mint entirely out of the process, and have those who want to claim their coins post photos of their certificates of authenticity. This would only be required once per coin.
If you could build the tool, and assign all 1500 to me, I can do the legwork of sending them on to those who claim them (I very much doubt there's been any theft yet, particularly not of the certificates).
I could see it attracting attention from the broader crypto community, as a test of the coloured coins concept, to the benefit of the steem ecosystem.
I originally suggested having them exist in different states, but it might be simpler to just treat them all as simply owned.
If you're willing/able to build such a tool, I'm happy to delegate 5000SP to either yourself, or any other steemian of your choosing for a month, by way of payment for your time.

Agree with your top point.

I might be interested in the project with the coins. It sounds simple enough! I am absolutely swamped right now but my workload may drop a little in a couple weeks. Is the project time-critical? Or can it afford to wait a little?

No. It can wait a while. Coins have been distributed to buyers and maybe 5% have been on-sold once.
We should be fine until the end of the year.

Cool. Ping me in maybe 2 weeks and we can chat about what exactly you want the tracking system to do.

In the mean time, you might check and see if a UIA on Bitshares could accomplish what you're looking for.

I like the idea of a public discussion on this. While I like the public curation on the steemit platform I think there are some issues. It seems to be improving at distribution of wealth increases; but it seems -who you are- not what you wrote decides the rewards. That is to say we have FISH RACISM -if you are a minnow, it is hard to get a top post, but if you are a whale- a picture of your latte will land on the trending page. That said in judging quality content there are a lot of different factors. My tools currently are upvoting a post, it gets a few cents, flagging a post -reserved for serious misbehavior- and reesteeming a post. Quality of posts can be measured in so many different ways. Intelligence. Quality of writing. Quality of Grammer. Importance of the Subject. Timeliness. Picture Quality. Formatting: (Bold-Italics). I can write a long grammatically accurate post about my coffee, but do you care? No. It lacks importance. I could see where sending Pocket Tokens on a post could potentially reward people who create really great posts. Sort of another way of saying good job. One job I worked at we gave people little "You Done Good" notes. (Yes, It was grammatically inaccurate.) It was a way of writing up that they had done something exceptional. If we were to use pocket in same way like that, it might add value. If we were to use Pocket Tokens to say Good Job. Sort of like when you are playing pool and you put multiple balls in the POCKET. Ultimately, if we don't do anything with pocket, they won't be worth much!

My thought with the curation thing was that a post's author could commit an amount of Pocket tokens to his own post, and then those tokens would go to the accounts that voted for the post. Or something like that. Thoughts?

Personally I believe that once the SMT's are introduced that we have the best opportunity to make good on that!

The more uses we have introduced here on Steemit as things stand + the fact that we are listed on Bitshares and possibly if someone out there sees an opportunity to make a site which utilizes Pocket Tokens = a ready made market for Pocket as an SMT.

A "Fork" as has been all the talk lately would definitely bring about an entire new meaning and value to our Pocket Tokens.

I'm just looking at it logically without any prejudices towards any of the options out there.
As an owner of Pocket Tokens who is using them on a weekly basis to reward peoples comments and in a raffle to which I am adding more and more Pocket Tokens every week, I have to admit that I would be one of the people who vote "Yes" for a Fork when the SMTs are introduced.

Why not make our Pocket Tokens the cream of the crop!

Opportunities like that don't come often, it would be a shame to let this one pass on by and not make the most out of it.

I'm not really sure what I just read, or what it is really about, but now I have heard of pocket I'll do some research. It sounds fascinating.

Sort of a "batch file" language of some sort??? To help me sort, find, do stuff on steem? maybe??

pocketsend:[email protected], no, Pocket is an experimental token system that I built. You can send tokens to other Steem accounts just by writing a comment formatted like this! See, I just sent you 500 tokens!

Successful Send of 501
Sending Account: biophil
Receiving Account: fred777bear
New sending account balance: 824762
New receiving account balance: 500
Fee: 1
Steem trxid: ef76dccbcfb5961bc244a88c892ba84564656ba0
Thanks for using POCKET! I am small bot and right now I am running this code.

Thanks. So you "sent" me 500 tokens. How do I "receive" them so I can send to others? Do I need a "wallet" or an app?
Sorry for basic Q's...... I'll get to the reading asap

You have them. I sent them to you, they're yours. There isn't any wallet, but you can always pay 1 token to check your balance by posting a comment that says pocketsend:[email protected], balance check. Then a minute or so later a bot will come along, take the 1 token you sent, and tell you your balance. It's that easy!

Ok sounds cool. I'll keep reading then have a play. Thank you for concept intro.
I'm starting to get a few ideas on how they might be really useful.

pocketsend:[email protected], Let's see how & if it works!

Successful Send of 1
Sending Account: fred777bear
Receiving Account: biophil
New sending account balance: 499
New receiving account balance: 824261
Fee: 1
Steem trxid: bf67ff4d885fe0bb8d445f84f2055b4329777250
Thanks for using POCKET! I am small bot and right now I am running this code.

pocketsend:[email protected], balance check

Successful Send of 1
Sending Account: fred777bear
Receiving Account: fred777bear
New sending account balance: 498
New receiving account balance: 498
Fee: 1
Steem trxid: 042ccca4930456dae16b3e32b3e34756b73a1a99
Thanks for using POCKET! I am small bot and right now I am running this code.

I would like to see an alternative command available to send POCKET in which the fee for the service goes to some sort of POCKET foundation that uses the profits to promote the use of POCKET tokens on STEEMIT. This way we would be creating our own treasury fund but it would be voluntary.

I like this idea, but please remember that I am always hungry for current :-), and so are other bots. I think fee should be split between confirming bot and foundation.

That may fall under the "not ok" category, because it makes the confirmer bots worse off.

Interesting crypto, will have to investigate deeper.

Pockets still alive???

Been away for a while.

It would be awesome to see more rewards for comments on steemit. Any chance pocket could fill that void?

That's the purview of @gentlebot and @thing-2 :)

Maybe Pocket could play a role. What do you have in mind?

Successful Send of 501
Sending Account: biophil
Receiving Account: gniksivart
New sending account balance: 825263
New receiving account balance: 1260
Fee: 1
Steem trxid: 5dcab1023aabe6f66c5a615242d3984f850cfa7b
Thanks for using POCKET! I am small bot and right now I am running this code.

If I’m actively using pocket tokens, how do I know how many I have at any given time? I’ve never seen any information that tells me where a ledger or wallet is for these. Did I miss this or?

There's no wallet. Standard practice is to send one token to yourself, like this pocketsend:[email protected], balance check. Then a bot will post a confirmation telling you your balance.

pocketsend:[email protected], memo: steem-biz

Successful Send of 5000000
Sending Account: steembusiness
Receiving Account: pocketexchange
New sending account balance: 999894
New receiving account balance: 52133392
Fee: 1
Steem trxid: 1a69355878e1cf6bf974de48d399692b0555e6ac
Thanks for using POCKET! I am a confirmer bot for fun, view my source confirmer code here. Don't know what a POCKET Token is? Here is a link to the official announcement post.

pocket-issue issued 4,949,999.000 POCKET to steem-biz

Thanks :) Can´t wait for the SMT´s to go live :)

Successful Send of 49998
Sending Account: pocketexchange
Receiving Account: virtualgrowth
New sending account balance: 52439894
New receiving account balance: 1486832
Fee: 1
Steem trxid: b45d3dfc772e7f378bd57361075e7b70da3cd03b
Thanks for using POCKET! I am a confirmer bot for fun, view my source confirmer code here. Don't know what a POCKET Token is? Here is a link to the official announcement post.

Since POCKET doesn't have a real value (yes,it's tradeable on Bitshares but with little or no action there :-( ) so it's quite hard to know what you actually get.
You can send a single POCKET as a reward but with no value it's worth the same as sending a million POCKET as a reward.
For now (in my opinion) POCKET is more a kind of appreciation token and far away of being a reward token.

I really would like to see more interaction on Bitshares (it's easy and not complicated to trade there and absolutely free, also check @pocketexchange and @blocktrades)

pocketsend:[email protected], great post on starting a pocket usage discussion. You knocked one in the pocket -pool game analogy.

Successful Send of 101
Sending Account: cryptick
Receiving Account: biophil
New sending account balance: 988061
New receiving account balance: 825764
Fee: 1
Steem trxid: f4a7b94c40e6e2d99b0888d5e7ff72b537aed488
Thanks for using POCKET! I am small bot and right now I am running this code.

I would read the whole post later. But can anyone explain me in short. And how to get started with it? Do i need to buy them?

pocketsend:[email protected], I'm sending you 500 tokens to get started with. They're stored in your Steem account, and you can send them to other people by posting just like I'm doing here. That's the basics!

Successful Send of 501
Sending Account: biophil
Receiving Account: henildedania
New sending account balance: 1260404
New receiving account balance: 600
Fee: 1
Steem trxid: b5f660b22fc32f743c6280f1fc1c3aa944de6090
Thanks for using POCKET! I am a confirmer bot for fun, view my source confirmer code here. Don't know what a POCKET Token is? Here is a link to the official announcement post.

I like the vault idea,big surprise.

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