How Being Too Nice Hurts Steemit

in #steem4 years ago (edited)

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Come for the rewards. Stay for the community.

I admit it, one of the reasons for me to be here is the reward system. My ultimate goal is to offer value to my followers and their gratefulness/appreciation will instantly convert into SP - what a great idea! It actually works very nicely, despite the FLAG Wars, Spam, Selfishness, Reward Pool RAPES, etc. The system needs to be improved and it will be, when the time comes. The million dollar question is - How can I help improve the environment on Steemit ?

Money Talks

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Obviously, one of the benefits of posting/interacting on Steemit is that you earn SP and SBD, but looking at the image above, which is seen by newcomers, one might think that all we are after is VOLUME. Well, that is definitely not the case in my opinion, but we definitely have to do some self-regulation.

What is the case here - YES, Steemit wants you to join, so your voice can monetize its worth. The second part of the equation reads - When you get to know the people and the idea behind Steemit, you will never leave - I agree. Everyone who has spent time posting/interacting with other Steemians is hooked for life! The problem arises from the participants in the ecosystem, who don't give a SH#T about the values of Steemit, they are here to make SBD.

If you don't work, you shouldn't eat !

There is a saying in my country - If you don't work, you shouldn't eat ! It is also written in the bible and I think it holds true in the following case. Why should you or I reward comments like "Good job", "Nice post", "Thanks for sharing", " I also think so" and many others like these. Do they add value ? Do they provoke a discussion? Are you making people, who actually wrote valuable comments feel bad- No, No and YES!

I am not saying that people, who are posting these kind of comments are bad people or that they don't deserve rewards, all I am saying is that it's not cool to get 2-3-4-5 SBD for a comment, that does nothing and is often seen as SPAM. The other day a friend of mine joined Steemit and he said - "You can immediately notice the incredibly high levels of spam incentivized by the reward system". There are plenty of people, who are on Steemit to earn some SBD with low quality content and very inefficient engagement. I did some research on such people and 90% of their comments are "Good post", " Thanks for sharing" - thousands of them.

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Source

Why is this happening

A lot of Steemians have been calling for "Action" on the Steemit platform and the best way to do that is to interact. In this case it always comes down to commenting, commenting and commenting. This is the best way to gain followers, earn SBD and eventually attract a Dophin or Whale to your cause. Of course I think this is great and it really leads to exceptional results IF you add VALUE to the discussion and to the community in general.

How To Fix This

  • Don't reward spam comments

If you think for a second, you will slowly realize that the responsibility lies with the one, who upvotes such comments. I have done it, you have done - we all have done it. It's not bad, if you do it once or twice, but rewarding such behaviour on a constant basis is bad for the Steemit ecosystem.

  • Read the comments before upvoting them

If you want an active and truly engaging following, you have to do some labour and read the comments, before you upvote them. If you feel like all your followers deserve a reward for their input - consider a 1-2 cent reward, but please READ your comments and upvote them accordingly, this is a sustainable way to increase interactions between Steemians.

Example

There is a fairly long post and I read it -20 mins. I like it and decide to share my opinion with the writer, It takes me 10 minutes to write a good comment. The total so far is 30 mins. The author reward my comment with 1 SBD and also rewards 20 other comments with the same amount, 70% of the rewarded comments are "good job bro" type. When I see this I am still kind of happy for the reward, but disappointed by the lack of answer to my comment and disappointed from the lack of distinction between a good comment and a spam comment. The next time I see a post from this author I barely read the article, still post a semi-interesting comment and get rewarded again. The fifth time I write - "Good job bro" and I get rewarded again for 10 secs of my time. As a reasonable being I start posting everywhere comments like this and eventually get rewarded for 10% of them - not bad.

Conclusion

We all want more active users on Steemit, more transactions on the blockchain, a good environment for the participants on the blockchain and to make healthy and engaging interactions. In order to do that the community has to regulate itself in a non-destructive way (Flag Wars).

There will always be participants, who are mainly here to benefit from the loopholes and that don't really care what happens in the long-term, our mission is to identify such actors and discourage them by not rewarding them. Of course I am not saying that every comment " Thanks for sharing" is a bad one, I have written such comments, but the big difference is that I don't expect a reward and I don't do it for the reward. Also, I upvote content that I like, the Steemit ethics requires it.

If you want our community to evolve, consider reading the comments people are writing to you, show the good commenters the appreciation they deserve. When you upvote your comment with 5 SBD and other (good) commenters with 0.2SBD, this sets up a pattern for unsustainable behaviour and then where would be in 5 years ?

Please stop upvoting every commenter, no matter the content of their input. And please ask yourself the following question - How can I help improve the environment on Steemit ? This is my call to action for you !

I would strongly recommend to check out @pawsdog's blog and his "Shit Post Series", where he exposes bad actors in our community! Let's help him fight the good fight!

If you liked the content and found it valuable Upvote, Re-Steem and Follow @ervinneb

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I agree that one of the first steps towards making Steemit a better place is by not rewarding spam comments, and that takes work since it's not always easy to tell the difference between bots and people who are non-native speakers. 😞

As you said, that requires READING!

And then there are the "Thanks for sharing. Resteemed" comments as you point out. I usually look at the commenter profile if in doubt, and if it's someone who's been around and also makes quality posts, sometimes I might reward that. At the end of the day, it's very subjective . . . unless you're a bot. 😅

Yass...This. I have gotta say I don't think I have ever made more than a few cents for my comments, but i find myself mainly interacting with those around the same SP as me. That being said, I have felt the exact way you have described. I try to put a lot of thought into my comments. If I don't have anything to say, I just don't. And if someone's blog is really great, I just upvote it, rather than just leave a meaningless comment. I really appreciate the people that take the time to write insightful comments on my posts, even if they are critical. That helps me tremendously with future posts and it is invaluable!

I have said before that I think it would be helpful to have a page (or a few) for newbie Steemies kind of explaining all of this stuff. Instead we have to keep writing these posts and hope that enough people see them to deal with the problems that are arising. Anyway, this was a really great post. I wish more people could see it and then take said advice! It's very important to the future of the platform!

If I also thought about that I think it would be much more information in the faq especially for the new ones, when I came here I had no idea of ​​anything and I made some mistakes as I guess everyone else.

Anyway, I do not think it's just about making long comments or that a much longer comment is better than another not so long, simply that the comment really conveys what you want to say and that you really notice the participation, because some comments they look very clearly that they are spam, but others can tell that they are really, who has the power or the criteria to choose that? Nobody but us to give a vote or not to give it according to our own criteria, steemit has no life so he does not know how to distinguish that hehehe, but we as people know perfectly when someone is telling the truth or not, and when someone is interested only in the benefit or someone is interacting and deserves the benefit that are 2 very different things.

We are not all artists or creators or we are the best bloggers, we are many who do not have incredible capabilities and I think that no one can assess whether what we do or not is quality because the quality is subjective and here for what I see something that does not happen I know if it is all good, really not always rewarding quality I would say that in only 20% or less, here by what I see is rewarding popularity, for example I see some post with a selfie that in my opinion is a bit ridiculous (well I never liked that of the selfies and that of showing every so so) the fact is that a single selfie that can reach 50 sbd or 150 sbd seems ridiculous, when I see content that really It took time to write it, write it or prepare it and it does not take more than a few cents, that's why I say that here I see mostly and unfortunately it is rewarding popularity more than quality, although I think the quality issue is a theme that what to do profu Because quality does not really exist is only the perception of a majority, for example if I say that I am an artist and I paint a picture with nothing more than a black dot in the middle, who is the one to question me that this painting is not a artwork? I've seen art of that kind ridiculous things valued in millions, why? No idea, hahahaha.

In the end, not only the quality but also the value, there is a lot of talk about contributing value, well we will analyze this now;)

if I tell a joke in a single line that takes me 1 minute but I manage to laugh at 100 people who voted for that joke and I made them feel very good for a moment, would that be considered to add value ?, because in the end the value also It is something very subjective, and providing that many have a good time of fun, bring value as I see it is not only that they pay for your time or your exfuerto or your work, bring value is when many people are enjoying what your as echo
Opinions on this? ;)


Well said ! The benefits of writing a well-thought comment outweigh multiple times the benefits of 1 -2 SBD. For example, with your comment now you have gained a follower (me), upvoted your comment, with all it's worth and I actually enjoyed reading your comment.

If you keep doing what you are doing it is inevitable to make a small fortune here. Also if you want more people to see this content, feel free to re-steem it.

Thank you for taking the time to write this !

Of course the lenght of a comment does not determine it's value. Also I am not judgin anyone in this post. But it is clear when someone is spamming, when you have written 100 comments "Good job bro" at various articles, it's a red flag.

If I see something that makes me feel better, for example i laugh at a joke on steemit, I will make sure to convey my gratitude with a comment like "that was funny" and an upvote of course. It would still be three words, but I would have done it just to show the creator my appreciation.

Overall everyone should decide for himself how to treat various commenters, I have decided for myself and shared my thoughts with you.

Thanks for your comment

P.S. I guess these pictures show us that everyone has a different point of view on the matter. I think this is extremely important for our progress. I respect that

I'm stunned, because I do not consider at all to be creating good content, at least not as far as blog (just look at my publications and the little value they bring in $) if I had more luck when I shared my music and take something more with that but not with the written text because I'm a bit of a mess writing, although sometimes I get more inspiration when I comment on other publications like now when I want to create my own publication.

What I mean is that I'm stunned is that I did not think that comment would earn me a subscriber, because in this case you're my only REAL subscriber hahaha, I have many but most are subscriptions by commitment or friends or like everyone at the beginning to win some subscriber and not appear with a very large zero, because we asked favors as the typical of if you subscribe I also subscribe with you.

I'm sure that some subscriber in my channel subscribed because he liked something of the content (I do not know exactly or I'll never know) but you're the only one who expressed it to me directly here and that's honorable for me and I'm also glad that I enjoyed the comment that is the best part.

if the images I put them for that because they represent what I think about the subjectivity of all things and really this topic gives for many post do not cres? Hahaha.

I liked a little phrase that you have on your profile that is worth gold
''You can not create more time, you can create more VALUE! ''

With your permission I will use it sometime than another;)

and the most important thing is not that we are followers or not only is to be in contact although I have to use the translator and it gives some work but I'm used to it.

gj with ur post, rly good article

I'm just kidding, the issue you're talking about is very real and you encounter it almost everywhere. I put a lot of time in the few posts I've made so far and most of them get barely any attention, which I'd be fully okay with, if I didn't regularly get decently sized rewards for comments which literally took me less than half a minute to write. It's downright demoralizing. I mean I'm still very new and I'll take any bit of Steem Power I can get, as I have a lot of catching up to do and so every little bit of support I can get is very appreciated, I just wished the appreciation had a better balance considering how much effort I put into each post/comment I submit.

I already see many people who properly upvote only comments that add value to the post/discussion and whenever I comment I try to either answer a question, bring up something new or at least put some effort into my response to explain why I agree to the post or liked the article. I really hope we can face this and the many other challenges to ensure the longevity of the platform. I'm already trying to think of ideas to share that could potentially help the community flourish and prevent or at least slow down abusive behavior.

I feel your pain ! I have written many well-thought comments, which don't get noticed or even replied and that is demotivating. But I believe that in the long-run people like us will have more and more power and we will change steemit for the better. Keep grinding, my friend !

I agree, and the financial incentive of steemit and propensity for bad actors to find a way to abuse the system does bring with it problems. Its a tough battle to fight and in many instances you get no love for your efforts to better the community. Regardless you have to keep doing the right thing and working hard for the good; as in the end it usually pays off.

As for your article, I would change nothing, it's you.. the english is more than good enough and the fact that there are small grammatical errors that only a native speaker would pick up on are a testament to the effort you put in writing a well thought out, cohesive and insightful article in a second language. Great JOB.. You have my 100%

Good job bro... :)

Thank you @pawsdog for the kind words, I appreciate it. I should have mentioned you in the post above, because you are one of the good actors fighting the '"good fight".

You can always edit and add me.. I have no objections..:) you have also been resteemed.

Done. Thank you for the support.

DUDE NAILED IT! I have always been a firm believer in vote with your wallet!! Good comments get votes! Spammers definitely need to be dealt with! That being said I'm not the biggest fan of leaving a long ass comment, but something more than 10seconds.

Everybody has their preference. Sometimes one sentence can sum-up a 10 minute read. I'll appreciate your style with a 100% upvote.

You have a lot of unnecessary commas in this post :)

I think this is partly a language barrier issue as many people here do not speak good english so they resort to simpler comments.

A solution to this would be to create multiple domains for separate languages still powered by the same blockchain.

I run my content through www.reverso.net for spell and grammar check, but I guess it is not perfect. I will work on my grammar.

I believe this is a very small fraction of the people I am describing, when you write 100 comments "good job bro" you obviously don't read the content, you do it for the eventual reward.

A great idea, but it is not feasable for the blockchain. It would be like facebook to have multiple domains.

I don't see why its not possible, facebook at least has language settings.

Like the KR and CN tabs are completely useless if you don't speak their language. I think if language was a setting that you could filter by instead the site would be much more user friendly.

You are right though, there are plenty of people who add nothing to the discussion and only want their few cents.

Yes, you have right ! User friendly steemit is the key for growth! Although I think adding features is a pretty slow process on Steem (not only this blockchain though) We will get there slowly but surely.

Suprised there wasn't more good job bro comments on this thread.
Hahaha, Good rant bro!

Thanks man! I want some more good job bro comments ! Saving my SP for them, lol.

Good job man :) No seriously you a right.

I think its a general problem of humanity. Everybody wants to maximize its own profit. As long as it will be possible humans will abuse any system.

Is is sad ? Yes very but as in every democracy voters get what they vote for...

Yes, you are right. Also I am not against self-voting or something. I am against when people don't want to do their fair share for the well-being of the community. You can't be a TAKER and expect only to TAKE. You have to give, if you want to receive. Thanks for your comment.

Indeed give and take. Im also convinced your own profits are higher in the long term if you balance your give and take. Even more in real life :)

Still working on understanding this place. I wrote a blog where the gist is that self-voting and bot usage goes against my grain, but they seem an integral part of success here. For me the $$$ rewards are secondary, as my primary interest has always been the disruption of the centralized status quo, but to really help SteemIt do that SP appears essential. So I feel like a rock in a hard place...

It helps seeing posts like this. I remain on the fence on these issues, but you (and the commenters) have helped lean me back toward my roots.

As always, the key to success is being persistent and patient. Bots and self upvoting are a big part for now, there are a lot of pros and cons. Ideally voring bots wouldnt exist, but they do. As long as they do, I might use them :) thanks for your comment

I pretty much agree with you. I'd love to share my way and experience. I normally read a lot of post but I have lesser time to reply back to a comment. As an appreciation to people who writes me back, I give them upvote that they deserve for putting effort to write me . I still filter what they say though, I know first hand that if someone say

GOOD JOB

that means they were not genuine nor sincere thus I don't think they should be expecting something from me. It hurts steemit and I am sick of all this bullshit where people expect reward for simply saying " good post" while I know they weren't really reading. Like what's good with the post, or what intrigues you the most about the post. If someone has nothing to say, I think they better move on and just upvote the post without having to spam the whole network with such mindless comment.

Yes ! Exactly what I mean, do you know what else pisses me off, when those saying "GJ BRO" don't even upvote your content - WHAT ?! However every comment is considered a transaction on the Steemit blockchain, which in turn increases the activity, which may be good for us all - it's complicated I guess.

Well said, thank you. Especially while the network is young we need to make sure to keep it pointed in the direction we want it to grow. Whatever is rewarded we'll get more of, so downvoting spam and upvoting quality content is the only way to give it a chance to grow.

Personally I'm a horribly slow writer and pretty self-critical. I try to post when I have something I think is important to say, but I do a lot more silent curation.

Firstly I would like to thank you for all the love you gave us here! We all appreciate it greatly! Secondly I absolutely agree with you on the downvoting/flagging thing, the problem is that people are somewhat afraid of downvoting, because if you enter a flagwar with a SP rich individual, it might get pretty ugly.

I also would like to encourage you to write more! I really think that the more you practice, the easier it gets. I have posts, which I have written for more than 4-5 hours, but lately it is getting easier. ( I am also a slow-writer and English is my third language, so I use a lot of help for my grammar, which obviously is not perfect) I believe a person like you can contribute greatly to our cause here.

Also if you are interested you can check out @pawsdog's blog and especially his shitty post series.

I certainly understand the fear of engaging in vote wars, especially as a small stakeholder. Ideally I think that fear shouldn't stop people though. If we can't trust the rest of the community to defend small stakeholders who are abusively downvoted, then the network may not have a future anyway and finding that out sooner is better than later. As long as the downvotes are soundly defensible and the downvoter has enough followers to notice an abusive counterattack and raise the alarm I think enough of us here will stand up for each other. If that stops being true, the only real solution is to fork the network and remove some abusive stakeholders, but things would have to get pretty bad for that to be supported.

I appreciate the encouragement. I am working on it, but of course progress is slow.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'm already following @pawsdog (which is how I discovered you and this post). I met him in some of my counter-abuse efforts and saw your post when he resteemed it. That's also inspired me to use resteeming more, since it's a very effective way to accelerate the development of a healthy and densely linked social network.

You are 100% correct! . I personally don't have a problem with downvoting and am ready to accept the "risk".

I appreciate the encouragement. I am working on it, but of course progress is slow.

You know what they say - "A thousand miles journey, starts with one step".

Thanks for re-steeming.

Why is spam comments? in my point of view..
(i am not read all comments here)

  1. Everyone has plenty of followers so they can't interact with every writer nevertheless they just giving appreciation like the same comments as you mentioned.
  2. To showing the writing skill, the content writers are presenting a long post. if the readers interested in like that posts, they will read that whole post otherwise they put the comment 'good post' very nice' etc..
  3. All steemians are not have capability of English writing skill so they turned to spam comments.
  4. Due to getting quick result and to leave from there, will happen like this.
  5. The great writers are having more voting power so they reward every comment. ( may be grace gift)
  6. And those are ON THE WAY COMMENTS so on the way, those people getting reward at the moments.

PS: i am not support spammers but the truth is like this.

Resteemed the thoughtful post.

I understand what you are saying, kunani. I still don't think that spam comments like "good job bro" and "nice post" should be rewarded with more than 5-10 cents. For example your english skills are not perfect, but you managed to write a well-constructed post, because you wanted to share your views.
Thanks for tuning in.

This post hits the nail on the head. I have only been on steemit for a few weeks. I also started because I saw $$$ but as I have been blogging and meeting new people I have really fell in love with this platform. The problem of spamming is great. I get really frustrated with robot comments to post. I even think auto voting takes away from the whole experience. My opinion is that all autobit anything should be stopped. The best part of the platform is the interaction. And the auto comments or the auto voting I feel take away from that. I really enjoyed your post. Keep it up.

Automated voting I think is a double-edged sword - some people don't have the time to actually interact that much, but voting without reading a piece of content is really strange. But then again if these people don't use their voting power, lot's of potential SBD's won't be distributed. So again a very complex topic. Thank you for your comment !

Good points. I didn't think of it that way. Still is frustrating to see post that are just a pic and 5 words get so many auto votes. But I do understand if no one autovoted then a lot of money would not distributed. You have given me something to ponder. Thank you

My pleasure ! We all know that we are far from perfect so far.

Good write up. I agree with your friends sentiment but want to add that there are those on the platform whose sole purpose is quick rewards, after a while though, others usually catch on to this and will start flagging those individuals or report them to the appropriate steemians who will take further action. You can only cheat the system for so long before it catches up to you.

You have to remember that steem is still a very new concept and there will be lots of kinks to work out as we progress, slow and steady my friend

Yes, it might happen that way, but if we are not aware of the problem, it might take too much time to stop it. Thanks for your comment

I like your post, but some of users here are too triggered happy on flagging and downvoting. This only create resentment and future "flagwars". Simply not voting is a good and neutral way to do it. Educate us minnows rather than simply attacking. On a somewhat related news, too many low reputation Steemit users are being bullied by higher rep users. Which is why I get heated everytime a see a fellow fish getting harpoon straight through the gut.

Yes, this is something that is a bit of a problem here. Although I think that if you have a valid point, people will defend you against downvoting. Or at least I want to believe that they will.

Some good points here.

To be honest, I'm quite impressed with the overall quality of comments on Steemit. Yes, spammy comments are an issue, particularly if they get rewarded. But ever take a look through the comments of a popular youtube video or news article? Usually about 95% crap.

Here on Steemit we have no central power to take care of problems like this, but the community is doing a damned good job of self-regulating. You are right, we all need to do our part and ignore or downvote bad comments while rewarding the good ones. But maybe we should also pat ourselves and each other on the back a bit for how well we are doing already. :-)

Cheers.

Yes, you are right. We have to be grateful for the community we have, but also we should not forget to work towards improving it. Thank you for your comment

Just joking ;)

I agree with you I have seen quite a few 'good posts' and similar upvoted to high amounts. Too bad those that do that probably won't be the ones who read this.

Yes, They definitely won't read it. If I had more followers or SP, I am sure the amount of GOOD JOB BRO would be tremendously higher.

excellent friend every day learning more, and putting into practice tips like yours for each day to progress more in this community ...

This is what I'm talking about not voting on poor quality is the first step flagging spam is the second but then what I'm wondering how we can stop the accounts that are bogus. I feel like these account s( @nadiaali and @rahdha ) are posting what I consider spam content. But what can I do just flag my vote is not worth but a few cents is there a bot we can tag on spam post?

Since I'm fairly new to Steem, I have been wondering about these loopholes. I realize that groupthink is unavoidable, say if many people are in agreement, then they will just mass upvote each other. Would having an admin team help filter out spam comments or vote farmers incentivize people to engage in conversations and actually think about the topic of a post?

Another way to reward people is to have a meritocratic system where the amount of SBD earned from votes is pre-determined by the quality of a comment regardless of the SP power people have. The only question is whether Steem should use bots or real people as moderators.

I think the whole idea of Steemit is to be decentralized, i.e. no central authority. If there are admins Steemit won't be decentralized anymore. So that kind of goes against the whole idea :)

But then how would you suggest dealing with the bots and farmers? Should it be entrusted to everyone who is in the community so they have an equal opportunity to flag suspicious posts? Just my two cents since I still believe some standards of conduct are necessary to keep things civilized.

I completely agree. I personally only reward two things. A good quality post, and a well considered comment.

I’m also not afraid to use my voting power to flag what I consider are spam comments. And interestingly, I don’t get many spam comments on my posts any more.

For Steemit to reach its true potential we really need to reward those that invest time in creating great content and interacting with the community in a meaningful way.

So keep promoting the cause!

Thank you ! I think your approach is the correct one. Persoanlly I am not that strict about comments, but rewarding "Good job bro is crazy".

I feel like these accounts ( @nadiaali and @rahdha ) are posting what I consider spam content. But what can I do just flag my vote is not worth but a few cents is there a bot we can tag on spam post?

These guys are trying to do something, so I think unless they pot on your blog, spamming, you shouldn't touch them. If they were raping the reward pool, then we could have arranged something, I guess.

yea but they keep posting repetitive copy pasted non original content

if more and more accounts are allowed to do this we are forced to skim through many posts to find the quality ones because so many nonsense posts will be shown

Report it to @steemcleaners and they’ll take care of them.

You're so nice for commenting on this post. For that, I gave you a vote! I just ask for a Follow in return!

Interesting strategy for boosting your rewards there.

Hi, this type of behaviour is not in our scope of work.
There are other projects that deal with similar things such as Spaminator, as one example.

So the questions I ever wanted to ask about Steemit
Thankyousomuch for posting @ervinneb

Glad you found value.

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