SteemHunt Team Blacklist SteemFest founder's Hunt tokens.

in #steemhunt7 months ago (edited)

As it appears, fork 22.8888 was not enough for the core 22.8888 group and Steemhunt team-members take the retaliation even further.

Immutability and respect of investments and ownerships are a far cry from reality for those running the Steem chain currently.

Next to having my full account (@roelandp) prevented from performing governance and fund related actions, I was looking at the SteemHunt website to get hold of my tokens. I invested considerable amount of SP (especially in the bull market) in 2017, 2018, 2019 in the Steemhunt platform.

Here is my holdings:
steemhunt_wallet.png

I believe(d) in their product and their webprojects also look attractive and professional. This is the reason why I delegated my SP to SteemHunt and also helped them host a presentation twice on SteemFest's Annual Global Steem User & ecosystem gatherings.

Only today I found out that when I tried to transfer an allotment of the ERC based tokens from their centralised wallet (237,653.97 Tokens are mine, claimed from the airdrop funds ages ago) to my personal wallet that my tokens are "blacklisted":

Blacklisted users cannot withdraw without permission. Please contact team on Discord to resolve the issue.

I have tried to resolve the issue by going to the Discord of SteemHunt. For transparency reasons here below is the full transcript which can be found on their public accessible Discord.

It is a long chat. Very interesting and shows an insight in the thinking of some of the 22.8888 witnesses which can be of use for people trying to form an opinion on the matter and the workings of SteemHunt especially in these dire days of centralised databases acting on the merits of being "blockchains".

The TLDR is a quote from on of the Steemhunt cofounders Tabris. The full chat transcript below, which can, again, be found in the publicly accessible Discord channel of Steemhunt, subchannel: Hunt-Token.

Yes we will remove the blacklist on top witnesses (including you) if the following conditions are satisfied:

  1. Restore seized Hive stake from all blacklisted Steem users, so they can choose which community they want to participate
  2. Stop spreading negativity to split the community (stop spamming, down-voting on our community members, spreading propaganda like "centralisation vs community revolution")

Not financial advice: If you own any SteemHunt tokens and are still stored in their centralised Database? Withdraw them to your own Ether wallet asap.

Not financial advice, DYOR: If I had those tokens I would sell them asap... You never know when tokens like these, with this kind of malicious behaviour, might get delisted because of influencing cryptocurrency markets, specifically preventing tokens from being entered on the markets.

roelandp Yesterday at 11:33 PM
Help: "Blacklisted users cannot withdraw without permission. Please contact team on Discord to resolve the issue"
I have been delegating Steem to SteemHunt for over 2-3 years now I think. I dont understand what I have done wrong in the project, and why I am blacklisted from withdrawing tokens.
Please let me know how to resolve this issue?
@tabris  @project7  @ggoma  care to help ^ thx.


project7  Today at 7:18 AM
@roelandp 
We have four blacklist criteria to blacklist users who:

1. Leave comments multiple times with irrelevant content to receive Steemhunt's upvotes.
2. Constantly plagiarize your content.
3. Operate alt accounts to abuse any of the Steemhunt voting pool, ranking chart, or airdrop tokens.
4. Pose a serious risk to Steem blockchain security and sustainability.

The reason why your account backlisted is because of no.4. We put the accounts who MAINLY led the 23.0 HIVE hardfork and selective airdrops to exclude 14 million worth of SPs including Steemhunt account. We strongly believe that this action has caused a huge sustainability risk in Steem blockchain where Steemhunt is running on top of.


roelandp Today at 7:37 AM
So you steal my tokens. Great. Please share your mail address for my lawyer. You are just making stuff up as it goes for a personal vendetta.


tabris Today at 7:46 AM
You put us on the blacklist on Hive FIRST, and split the chain and community. Steemhunt lost a huge portion of users because of the drama you guys initiated. What did you expect? 
Stole your token? No it's just our community policy that we can ban users who caused a damage to our platform.


roelandp Today at 7:48 AM
Please share your post address in pm thanks.


tabris Today at 7:48 AM
please share your post address in pm


roelandp Today at 7:49 AM
I think lawyers will need to decide on this matter.

i am not even on your blacklist my friend. At least not on github
you are making stuff up as it goes for retaliation
You are abusing your power


tabris Today at 7:50 AM
https://github.com/Steemhunt/web/blob/master/POSTING_GUIDELINES.md#blacklist
GitHub
Steemhunt/web
Steemhunt Web Client. Contribute to Steemhunt/web development by creating an account on GitHub.

updated 23 days ago


roelandp Today at 7:51 AM
You really want to discuss something?
Ok 23 days ago thats fair. So i am not elligible to receive new airdrops per your criteria. Thats fine.
But you bend it now, so I cannot withdraw my own tokens (I received looong time ago) from your wallet. Thats a difference. Do you see this or not?
Q: What do I need to do to get me off your "special" blacklist? and transfer my tokens?
^ please?


roelandp Today at 8:05 AM
@tabris @ggoma @project7 ^


tabris Today at 8:06 AM
we will discuss


roelandp Today at 8:10 AM
ok i have 1 hour.


roelandp Today at 8:17 AM
Anyhow i dont feel any reasons why i feel any different about SteemHunt then about a bank seizing users funds... 

You are not behaving according to your own Terms. 
You are robbing steemhunt tokens from my stack which are in your wallet. 

These tokens where issued to me long before this thing unfolds. 

I accept you no longer issue airdrops to me, from 23 feb onwards. Totally fine. 

But stealing retrospectively is theft, dont you think?

"Even if you are blacklisted, you can still use our platform (posting, upvoting, and commenting), however, you won't be able to get upvoted nor received airdrops by Steemhunt. We announce the blacklist via #blacklist channel in our Discord Group You can also appeal via #blacklist-appeal channel if you think you did not commit any of the actions above."

I got those in 2018 -  2019.
They are restrospectively being taken away from me


project7 Today at 8:19 AM
1. The Steemhunt wallet that you can access is NOT an on-chain wallet. It's NOT issued yet. You have to CLAIM to withdraw.
2. Blacklisted users CANNOT claim to withdraw under our terms.
3. You're blacklisted from the reason of the security risk of Steen blcokchain  in relation to HIVE action.


roelandp Today at 8:20 AM
I have claimed all my tokens my friend
that was the first phase
I am blacklisted from transferring them from your central eth wallet to my wallet
Do you remember your own project setup?
There was a claim part and a withdraw part


project7 Today at 8:22 AM
Yes the wallet you're seeing is NOT on-chain. Blacklisted users are not able to WITHDRAW


roelandp Today at 8:22 AM
You just said CLAIM. you are making stuff up as it goes.
Seeing you guys can make stuff up so fast...
Please just answer my question:
Q: What do I need to do to get me off your "special" blacklist? and transfer my tokens?
Please make the answer quantifiable
And about me.
Not some generic thing.
what do I, as Investor, need to do


tabris Today at 8:39 AM
OK Please answer following questions first.

1. What can we do to get Steemhunt off from your "special HIVE blacklist" ? (We have more than 200,000 Hive tokens to receive including our personal accounts and Steemhunt accounts)
2. What can you do to bring our community back? we have lost about 50% of users because Hive blocked Steemhunt and split the community.

This situation is actually caused by you guys (old top witnesses) , so we're willing to discuss further if you guys fix the issue first : Restore seized Hive stake from all blacklisted Steem users and stop spreading negativity to split the community (stop spamming, down-voting on our community members)


roelandp Today at 8:40 AM
Thanks @tabris allow me to rephrase your answer to my question, so I have it clear:
My question is this: Q: What do I need to do to get me off your "special" blacklist? and transfer my tokens?

As I try to distill from your answer, your answer to my question is this:
we're willing to discuss further if you guys fix the issue first : Restore seized Hive stake from all blacklisted Steem users and stop spreading negativity to split the community (stop spamming, down-voting on our community members)

Is that the anwer to my question? To conclude: I will get my tokens (maybe) if the Hive fork of Steem airdrops Steem balances to all accounts on the exclusion list, and stop spamming, down-voting on Steemhunt community members?

FYI: Hive has not blocked any accounts. Just want to get that straight to other people reading here. The initial Hive hardfork code put about 350 people on an exclusion list. Those people had significant stake in the Steem blockchain and use that stake to vote for destruction of the Steem chain: centralisation.

Is that the anwer to my question? To conclude: I will get my SteemHunt tokens removed from your special blacklist (maybe) if the Hive fork of Steem airdrops Steem balances to all accounts on the exclusion list, and stop spamming, down-voting on Steemhunt community members?
Is the above correct rephrasing? ^^^


tabris Today at 8:49 AM
FYI: Centralisation =  top witnesses did a secret SF without community agreement to freeze Steemit's stake for their own benefit
nothings was centralised before 0.22.2 SF


roelandp Today at 8:51 AM
Is that the anwer to my question? To conclude: I will get my SteemHunt tokens removed from your special blacklist (maybe) if the Hive fork of Steem airdrops Steem balances to all accounts on the exclusion list, and stop spamming, down-voting on Steemhunt community members?


tabris Today at 8:57 AM
Yes we will remove the blacklist on top witnesses (including you) if the following conditions are satisfied:
1. Restore seized Hive stake from all blacklisted Steem users, so they can choose which community they want to participate
2. Stop spreading negativity to split the community (stop spamming, down-voting on our community members, spreading propaganda like "centralisation vs community revolution")


roelandp Today at 9:12 AM
Ok thx. This confirms me you are abusing your power. Thank you. 

You just use the "4. Pose a serious risk to Steem blockchain security and sustainability.-blacklist as a reason to somehow make this ransom look good. 

You dont honour your own business logic, where you seize my already received (and claimed!) airdrops from 2018, 2019 instead of not airdropping future airdrops. 


Additionally you admit you will remove me from your (hidden) blacklist if I airdrop stake on a fork (!) of a chain you are using with Steemhunt and I should make sure other people who I don't know or have influence to stop spamming (loose definition) down-voting on Steemhunt community members)  

Great. I hope Probit will be reasonable and listen to my request to delist your token because of market manipulation.
Good luck with your project.


tabris Today at 9:32 AM
You are the top witness on Hive chain who runs the code (https://github.com/steemit/steem/pull/3626/files#diff-18c0bc20c16e81de0b686c08c6a65898R12) that blocked more than 300 active Steem users and investors from Hive chain (which is a fork of the Steem blockchain, keeping all user data and the content we created for years, BUT removed all  token balances - "market manipulation!").

We don't expect you to change everyone's decision, but you can change your own.


roelandp Today at 9:34 AM
You are welcome to fork Steem and add your own rules. :thumbsup: I encourage you to do that.


tabris Today at 9:34 AM
Thanks for your suggestion :slight_smile:


roelandp Today at 9:35 AM
Hunt chain. You have a great designer, you can have a nice team. Step over retaliation and build forward.
Sort:  

I don't think there's anything strange about this. You never paid any money for HUNT token. That was just claimable option in the HUNT platform.

You could claim those airdropped token if you didn't violate the terms and condition of HUNT. But you have violated what you already had accepted. Every DApp service provider can put sb on the blacklist which meet their own criteria.

They even had let you know very clear reason for that. What's the problem?

violate the terms and condition

Those were changed recently, did they ask him if he accepts the new conditions? You can't just do that in secret.

Every DApp service provider can put sb on the blacklist which meet their own criteria.

If a dapp can block tokens, it's not a dapp. Stop using blockchain and switch to a centralized db.

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No, but he delegated SP to them for a long time, no? That's basically the same thing as having paid for those tokens. And as Roeland says: There's a difference between denying further airdrops and benefits and withholding access to tokens he earned years ago through his support of Steemhunt.

That said, I too hope that we can work towards those two outcomes that steemhunt mentioned. I was, and still am, not in favor of the exclusion list for the Hive fork, as you can read in my comment to their psot here. I also find it petty to have people spend time trying to sabotage projects on other chains rather than focusing on making whatever chain people decide to stay vested in the best that it can be.

Read this: https://steempeak.com/steem/@softfork22888/we-need-your-help-to-protect-steem#@nonameslefttouse/re-softfork22888-q893r4

I called it on day one. You should pay attention as well. The demands are highlighted in the post above.

I don't know why you assume I have not read most if not all of the relevant posts and discussions.

I don't know why you assume I assume you have not read these things...

Whatever, man.

He delegated SP to them for 2 years as part of their sponsorship program. https://steemit.com/steemhunt/@steemhunt/steemhunt-sponsor-program-ends-or-sponsor-report-97

Here are the week’s STEEM rewards and HUNT tokens reserved for sponsors (the STEEM rewards have already been sent to sponsors from @steemhunt.pay). Sponsors get 20% yearly INTEREST (mixed with STEEM/SBD plus HUNT tokens) to his/her delegation support.

They failed to pay him for tokens owed for the delegation. That amounts to theft of services rendered.

Just another justification for ransom.

factual untrue. the delayed claiming process had been executed daily by me last summer iirc. now they also claim that already claimed tokens are not yet my ownership. funny.

The HUNT token airdrop policy has never changed. It's been operated via the following way from Day 1 till now.

  1. People can participate in the airdrop program in multiple sections such as SP sponsor program, voting on Steemhunt posts, and so much more.
  2. We "reserve" your token on your Steemhunt wallet, and you can "transfer" to your EOA.
  3. In order to protect our platform, we run a Posting Guidelines and Blacklist Policy and we constantly amend this rule whenever we encounter to unexpected risks.
  4. Anyone who violates this term can be blacklisted, and we ban the withdrawal feature to protect our platform, dedicated users, and investors. This is a valid procedure since this is "reserved" tokens that you can claim to withdraw anytime you want when you're an eligible HUNT user. We just stop for someone who falls into a violation of the terms to withdraw.
  5. You are blacklisted due to this reason - Cause a serious risk in Steem blockchain security and sustainability. Even though you don't agree, we see that the 23.0 HIVE hardfork and over 13 million SP airdrop exclusion has caused a huge risk in the Steem blockchain sustainability and this risk still continues. You are one of the main HIVE witnesses who has forked the chain from Day 1 as a MAIN WITNESS.
  6. Again, Steemhunt wallet that you see is NOT an on-chain wallet. It's different to STEEM or Ether wallet and I'm sure that I have no need to explain the difference to you.

Imho you turned from a respective designer into a scam artist. I wish you good luck with your 150 million tokens (+ 200K from me). I guess you will just steal them in due time.

For your dev: Here is a download link for your future project: https://mariadb.org/download/

Just FYI, unlike Justin Sun who can do whatever he wants on STEEM (which is not a blockchain by now otherwise 22.8888 wouldn't have gone through), there is NO WAY except for community consensus, which enabled Hive to start in the first place, to agree to the condition to give everyone their airdrop. Also when you understand the DPoS functioning, you should know how this is dangerous. There is one way to maybe get this airdrop: lift the curtains, go on your knees and beg for forgiveness about supporting the madman that puts Steem into disarray. That is not Hive's fault, it's Justin's, and it would have happened with or without Hive happening. Now try to prove me wrong about this, I dare you.

Thanks for your post

Yes we will remove the blacklist on top witnesses (including you) if the following conditions are satisfied:

Restore seized Hive stake from all blacklisted Steem users, so they can choose which community they want to participate
Stop spreading negativity to split the community (stop spamming, down-voting on our community members, spreading propaganda like "centralisation vs community revolution")

Read this: https://steempeak.com/steem/@softfork22888/we-need-your-help-to-protect-steem#@nonameslefttouse/re-softfork22888-q893r4

I called it on day one. Pay attention.

Damn. What a shitshow.

Not your mattress... not your fiat. Not your keys... not your coins.

I don't agree with any centralized party absconding with funds.

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