User Authority, Resteems and the Drop-off. Stop your friends from trying steemit.

in #steemit3 years ago

A new reputation metric has been launched and widely discussed; UA.

As best I can tell its a type of popularity contest, based on follows.

How trusted are the people who trust you?

I'm ranked #404, which I'm pretty happy with. I'll do a tidy up of my follows and check again in a week, to see if it's changed.

I resteemed a post earlier today, which got me thinking about my process. I have a long-standing policy of only resteeming in the interest of my followers.

Not the author, not myself, only the reader.

Not everything I resteem will be of interest to all of my followers; just like not every dish on the menu will appeal to diners at a restaurant.

The post is a deep dive on some strategies around the newly released mechanics of the steemmonsters game, focusing on cost effective strategies to help a limited budget go a long way.

A lot of people who have no interest in steem monsters will scroll past it, but if I've shared it, they can be sure it's an excellent post.
A vegetarian will skip the meatier options on the menu without losing faith in the chef, as long as he keeps serving up excellent salads and pasta; they can assume his roasts are also top notch and know they're respected as a customer.

A trend I've noticed in my time here is for a new user to arrive, enjoy an initial flurry of support for a few weeks, then find themselves suddenly unpopular.

The drop-off

That's not quite true, but it's the impression they get.
The fact is, new people are warmly welcomed and given an opportunity to start adding value and be noticed accordingly.
We all want to find and support those people, but being immediately popular just for being here gives them the idea that we're supporting them because we like them, and we do.
We like lots of people.
We can only support a few at a time, though; so once we've rolled out the welcome mat, dropped a few dollars in their wallet and showed them around; we have to head back to the door and greet the newer newcomers. Being likable isn't enough.
The chef is likable, but the customers come back for his cooking.
If they don't develop a reputation for being interesting, entertaining or inspiring during this window, they're in for a rough time out on the open ocean.


The effect of this drop-off is exacerbated by another issue I've noticed;

Giving it a try.

You try a new flavour of icecream or a new gym.

These are things and because the blockchain is a thing, people give it a try, which is entirely the wrong mindset.
This platform is just a means of communication with people; and people aren't things.

Icecream reacts and tastes the same whether you lick it tentatively or with gusto; while you can expect a range of different reactions when licking people.
Minds can't be measured scientifically like things can; the closest we get is Praxeology.

I've offered to resteem friends' #introduceyourself posts and then had to withdraw the offer when I see the 3 sentences and 1 photo they've thrown together. They want to dip a toe in the water, see what sort of reaction they get, and consider easing into longer, more involved posts because they're not sure if it's something they're going to be into.

This is a good way to investigate a thing; but a terrible way to establish a rapport with people. Of course, they get a warm welcome, then slowly start revealing more of themselves, and putting in more effort, just as the drop-off arrives. It gives them the impression that the more time and attention they put in, the lower the payouts and engagement they get.

If icecream starts out tasty and gets less sweet with every lick, you're going to throw it away.

We need to stop encouraging new recruits to try this thing.
It's a collection of people. People who are looking for dedicated, inspiring, insightful authors.

If you're fortunate enough to start out with a narrow, warm, welcoming window of opportunity in which to train readers to smile and click when they see your name; use it and cherish it.

Happily, there's a way they can dip their toes in, and train readers to click their name, without even clicking their name...

Retention is all about setting expectations.
If you recruit somebody; set the expectation that they absolutely will not get any lasting traction on their posts until they have a couple of hundred followers, no matter how incredible they are.
Those followers are going to come largely from comments.
If they choose to blog anyway and inevitably hit the drop-off, they're less likely to turn sour and throw away the icecream.

I'm really glad we have an alternative to the existing reputation system and look forward to seeing how it all shakes out by the time SMTs launch.

Between SMTs, UA, Steem monsters, Hivemind, Communities and the huge number and range of dapps in development; there are a lot of reasons to be excited about the future of our chain.

gif source

As long as I follow @the-canary, you'll know I'm posting freely.


Great piece of content, Matt!

I'm a big fan of the new User Authority concept, but especially enjoyed your focus on retention.

You try a new flavour of icecream or a new gym. These are things and because the blockchain is a thing, people give it a try, which is entirely the wrong mindset.

That's so true!
It's all about quality and not quantity in that context. We gonna have a terribly bad looking retention curve in a couple of months/years if we go ahead in the same wild and crazy recruiting style.

Found thanks to @abh12345, enjoyed and resteemed

Thanks Marly :)
I don't think every lost user is an indictment or something we've done wrong, necessarily.
I'm sure a lot of people know themselves well enough to pick up that they're just not wired for it.
It's a shame all the focus is on blogging, when it's really about community.
The kind of people we want to hear from don't feel comfortable giving a speech in the town hall the day they arrive in town. Let them hang out in the back, get to know the other residents; get a feel for the place. Take the pressure down.

It's a shame all the focus is on blogging, when it's really about community.

Yeah, that's the point.
But honestly there are few things done to change that.

It all starts with Your voice is worth something. That fosters the problems we can't fix later on. How will you improve on expectation management if the brand itself fuels the pressure from day 1?

I am about a month here now, and I have received support from existing members and I am grateful. Some have even offered to help me reach my goal of having 500sp by December. I do know this support will not last forever, so I try my best to put my best step forward, share my experiences and thought and hope I engage users the right way. I have a relatively small following so I compensate by being active on the blockchain--commenting most especially because that's the only thing of value I have to give, a my steem power is worth nothing at the moment.
I also hope to get to the stage where I can also help new users as well. And yes I do agree that top steemians cannot follow up all redfishes to the end, but if they can help get them to the middle-class stage (to become minnows) in can ease their burden, where by minnow support in ushering new arrives into the fold.

Something like helping the helpers.
I try to help new users who roll out amazing contents, but are getting discouraged because of low support. I support them until they attain reasonable amount of reputation.

I think reputation is one and Sp is another. One needs about 500sp be become a minnow. My reputation is currently 47.9 and my S.P is 18. Now yes it looks like I am doing well, but I cannot support new users because my upvote is worth nothing. My believe is that if we have more people who are serious about steemit having greatee sp they will have distribute the wealth of the platform, even more effeciently.

Can you suggest how whales can support new users?

I think if we can have significant number of minnows then that will cease the burden of the whales. that will entail following the dedicated redfishes up until the reach a stage where they can also help other new users. in my opinion, this can be achieved through upvotes (obviously), delegating SP and resteeming.

We have not discussed the power of resteeming that much on steemit, I think I will talk more about that in my next books

Okay. You writing books about steemit?

No. Just random posts on my thoughts about the blockchain. You can find some on my page

When I came here it was because I wanted to share some blogs and articles. I was introduced to it by reading a comment on Facebook where the guy said that if he had a dollar for every article he'd written he'd be well off. On steemit he'd gotten over $100 for a couple of articles. I was under no illusions that I'd be that lucky so quickly. As it happened, his high payers were due to curie and his articles were very detailed. After a while they went down to cents (his drop off) and he sadly stopped posting.

I often wonder if you need a reason to be on here to start with and be realistic with expectations. I was already trying to do a blog, but had no idea if I could monetise it. I'd have continued sharing no matter what, so the chance of a little payment is a bonus. If you're not here for a reason, just seeing what it's like, then nothing's going to jump up and make it a great experience.

I do think that as more dapps come along, more people will have their interests represented and will be able to enjoy steem each in their own way, rather than blindly trying to figure out what the fuss about steemit is.

I'm sort of like that. I had huge curies which motivated me to post basically crazy detailed art posts. I've had a big drop off quite recently and I stopped doing very detailed posts but I haven't stopped posting. I had and still have realistic expectations, but I can't afford a non paying hobby at the moment. So I scaled my posts down, reflecting my payouts. Bigger payout means bigger post next time. Constantly adjusting is probably the best way to survive the ups and downs on Steemit :)

The fact that you're still posting says to me that it is more than just the payouts that keep you here then. You may have lost the motivation for the long winded detailed posts, but you still have something to share. I'm glad you've stuck around.

My original reasoning was pretty similar. In my late 30's, 3 young kids.
I've been conscious for a while that if I were to suddenly die (which does happen), my kids would grow up with a hunger to know who their Dad was; and my Facebook is a mess, even if it were still available to them.
I remember some early services offering to embed your message in the bitcoin blockchain (for a fee); so when I heard I could come here and get that sort of permanence, but for free: I was all over it.


One of the greatest values I see in Steemit is as an archive of my thoughts, available should my descendants ever care enough to have a look... That's why I keep trying to improve my Steemit Library.



I hadn't actually thought of that benefit. What we write here will be, hopefully, available forever into the future for our loved ones to enjoy.

Looking forward to the SMTs Launch @mattclarke , and I also believe in and am very excited about the future of this awesome platform!😃✌👍💕💕

Love all the graphics you do, Karen. Very cute :)

Awe thanks ! heh what card did you buy from me on the market!? it only shows me a long number, with your name at the end lol! thanks a bunch by the way, I really need the money! and I have a bunch of different cards for sale as I try build a team!😀

I don't pay much notice of the seller names during my click-frenzy :)
It was either a flesh golem or a gold Lyanna.

Aha , lol, I understand, hahaha, It would have been the gold Lyanna , thats what I thought it was , thanks again!😂💕✌👍

Loved reading this article... Sooo many good nuggets in here. My favorite was when you talked about shifting away from the mindset of "Trying this out". It's so true. Getting random hordes of people that only stay for a few weeks does nothing positive for our community or for the future of the blockchain.

One of the things I try to say to set people's expectations is that they couldn't expect to start a blog and start earning tomorrow. Or they couldn't start a YouTube channel and become a star with tons of money flowing in right away. No way... both of those scenarious seem crazy. People understand that to build a following and monetize it - it takes a LOT of time.

I basically say it's like that. For any long lasting success - they have to build up their following - which will take time and a lot of work.

With all of this said .... I think I still fall into the "try this out" kind of mindset sometimes - so thanks for setting me straight. :)

Thanks again for the thought provoking post!

Ironically there are quite a few early adopters I remember who did make money hand over fist at first; constantly powered down and cashed out, saw their payouts slowly reduce down to a trickle; then left, complaining that those with influence were 'doing it wrong'.
This is after they themselves had foregone any opportunity to wield said influence.
Which is great, it's part of the way the system was designed.

Keep hold of your stake; or regret it later.

It’s kinda crazy to think where those people would be now if they had stuck around and stayed powered up! Like you said though... it’s all part of the circle of life around here.

I do wonder if some of those people ever pop back into Steemit to see what’s happening and kick themselves for cashing out when they did. Who knows. 🤷‍♀️

Well, they may still have no regret, it depends on individual. People power down for different reasons, only those who hum about influence are hypocrites.

We're in a bear market for content. Need more content bulls. :)

Or at least, that "drop-off", and not the "hot new flavour of ice-cream"; to be full of chemicals that will kill us all.

I'm not someone who prepares exceptional content on a consistent basis; I'm just consistent. Even still, the reward of Steem is paltry to the community engagement I've gotten thanks to being here in the first place.

As much as I dislike interacting with other humans, doing it here is fun, because people
a) Mostly remain civil
b) Are fairly well educated, and articulate
c) Flesh Golems.

The immutable nature of the chain attracts people who are drawn to accountability.
Those are the best kind of people. Snakes hate this stuff. No room to hide your conniving.

I think that the 'try it out' method that some people use is definitely wrong - especially when they head down the F4F path. With the 6 degrees of separation we all must know someone that is new to the platform and that we could guide a little more. I personally have mentored friends and family that have shown an interest... taught them the ins and outs and how to do a good introduceyourself post. I think that everyone should have a goal to mentor new users and help turn up the retention and ensure the appropriate pressure is there to post meaningful content, join a community or just plain interact... but then encourage them to pick up a friend or if you are spread too thin the next person that you on board - ask for help from your newly minted novitiate.

That's true. It's easy to spread yourself too thin. Gotta pick the right recruits to make sure they're going to pass the torch along.

One thing that is weird (and unique) about Steemit is that most people here are sort of forced to be content creators as well as content consumers.

At this point, Steemit is kind of analogous to life here in Los Angeles versus just about everywhere else I've ever lived.

In most cities, for instance, if a band goes and plays a gig at a club the entire audience are simply spectators. If they like your music, they can buy your CD. They might decide to become a fan and even look you up, and go to your next show. Here in LA, a band goes to a gig, and everyone watching the show is also a wannabe musician. No one is there to be your fan, they are just there to ride the wave of your influence, or move on if you don't have any.

I don't really know what the solution is, but I feel like in order for this platform to truly grow, there needs to be an incentive to participate as a normal spectator. Someone who really doesn't have the wherewithal to be a hardcore content creator.

I mean, I do see that there are a lot of people who are just curators and have not really made any posts themselves, but those are the equivalent of the 'A&R' guys in the club that everyone is butt kissing and trying to get on their good side.

Just my 2 cents from someone who most mostly a lurker for the last couple of years and only started posting over the last few months. I definitely agree that the comments are where the followers come from. Comment sections of posts are the meat and potatoes of this platform. All that said, I have high hopes for Steemit and am looking forward to seeing where things go over the next few years!

@nuthman, you address a problem which I find also very interesting.
I also have the impression that there are many doers but few spectators. The content providers themselves can hardly interpret, criticize, appreciate or applaud the many things done at the same time if they seriously pursue their art.

I don't know if this is going to change as for every newcomer counts: the moment he enters this realm the moment he becomes a creator and does not stick to a pure consumer status. Maybe that is why the talk about SMTs is such a hot topic (as far as it is understandable).

Here, I think, the encounters between audience and artist are determined by the very nature of the digital realm - it's the speed in which providing and back feeding can take place. It's fast and often furious.

If one would treat a comment like a hand written letter, putting it in an envelope, writing down the address, weighing it at the post office, putting a stamp on it, than superficial commenting would not take place in this high numbers. But as the effort is little, comments get retarded a lot. Guess, we must live with it. As well with a much more massive amount of superficial content and "providers". Selection becomes really a task.

Sometimes I comment on months old articles but the interest in doing so is not being encouraged because again of the speed. Which wouldn't hold me back, personally - but the bad structure of the blog itself is killing it.

From a Zen perspective one can learn here to let lose of old content and not being ashamed of repeating oneself. Funnily, though the content is blocked in the chain its nevertheless long "lost".

I am really curious about steemits future.

@erh.germany you make a fantastic point, and I love the comparison to hand written letters. I agree 100%.

On one hand it is great that we can quickly and briefly exchange ideas, but conversely it opens the door to a lot of laziness and carelessness.

I myself am constantly striving to improve my writing and grammar skills, as well as expand my vocabulary. The age of the internet, somewhat ironically I suppose, has put these arts at risk.

@schattenjaeger makes a similar point, he'd even like to see a reversal, where the author only gets 25% while the curators share 75%.
Make curation great again :)

lol.. I'd probably get rich if that happened!

while you can expect a range of different reactions when licking people.
I did not expect that xD
However, yeah giving it a try is fine if you're actually giving it a try with all you've got ;) The first impressions last for a long time no matter if in real life or online.

Also it's important to have some sort of goal or direction, as there will be rough pathes and those goals keep you going. I have times like now when I simply experiment with posts, but I always have my main theme "dragons" to return to when I wish.

There are so many Steemians it's simply impossible to keep track of everyone, so comments make a huge difference actually for having people remember you.

Good luck to anyone passing by in the comments ;)

I still consider myself a newbie.

I get what you’re on about.

Expectation is everything. Luckily I didn’t come here expecting to ‘get rich’, but a community that will read my work.

My engagement with writing is better here than on any other platform I’ve published on.

I think we need to promote the community aspect of this blockchain.

Because that’s exactly what it is!

Posted using Partiko iOS

Too true. I think the mental health angle is a big one, too.
There are so few trolls; and its so inspiring to drop a dollar on somebody for a great post.

The financial benefit is wonderful and all, but the true wealth of this place is being among genuine friends--people seeking to further the same life long objectives.

@mattclarke I actually prefer it to the current reputation grading we have now. It promotes support for others in a way too.

As for the commenting bit, I have learned that the hard way. Am dedicated to increasing my base through commenting

Absolutely right. You don't just catch the attention of the author, you're also noticed by everyone else who reads the comments. Excellent strategy.
I've said before, being a great blogger early is like doing fantastic standup in your own lounge room.
It doesn't matter how good you are.

Yes, I recommend people engage mostly in comments and replies when they are new and to avoid spending lots of time authoring their own long posts. Engagement is key at first, but people also need quality content as you know. It's a delicate dance!

This post was shared in the Curation Collective Discord community for curators, and upvoted and resteemed by the @c-squared community account after manual review.

I recently made a post for the purpose of onboarding new users. People can use the link to that post on other social media websites to link back to Steemit.

Let's be honest. This place has a pretty steep learning curve at first. Therefore, the objective was to make it easier for people to get started without compromising their account security.

My hope is to introduce people to Steemit in a way that is not overwhelming. Some people do very well on places like "Do hide evil" Google+ or FascistBook, but on here they never really get off the ground.

Heck, when @Hilarski introduced me to Steemit, I made an account. Then I didn't use it for over a year! It would be difficult to express in words how much I regret that decision too.

Thanks for sharing about the User Authority scores and other efforts to improve our community. Steemit is the best place to be for social media without centralized censorship, content filtering, or shadow banning.

It's an honor and pleasure to be a part of it!

My mate @holoz0r did similar. Started an account, then left it alone for 7 months?
I took a 3 month break late 2016 to early 2017, mostly writer's block, but I kept upvoting and commenting occasionally. Try
Heaps of features you don't get on steemit; and if you want something they don't have, you can just ask the devs directly.

I'm checking out right now, thanks! GINAbot has been filling in the gaps for me for a while now, so I haven't needed another interface to the blockchain other than I'm certainly open to using other websites though.

Many user are hitting the high reputation simply by using bid-bots even though they do not have any content. ...UA will definately bring in changes that is must for survival. I belive commenting is very important aspect on it has been my first genuine earning on steemit. Currently do not gi ing much value they simply upvotes and walk away...i even doubt if they even read all the content. With UA user will be more active in commenting and help in increasing follower rather than some fake way..inthink steemauto need to think upon as they provide vote for vote and follow to follow.
Glad you make some valid point with UA going on to make some content for today... Thanks @mattclarke

Posted using Partiko Android

I've been interested in the UA discussion because of possible application with @steempeak so i'm happy to hear thoughts from people i trust about it.

I very much like your analogy with ice-cream. The new UA metrics is also great tool. I'm currently steeming with UA score of 2.448 and rank of 16441, but I guess it is not that bad for a newbie. I have learned a lot from this post and I thank you for that, @mattclarke.

Glad to help, mate. That's great for a newcomer. Travel photography is very popular, so keep at it and I'm sure you'll keep climbing those rankings.

Thnaks for your words of encouragement.

Spot on.

I rarely welcome new folk these days, there are enough comments (some of them terrible bot messages) on intro posts.

Where I like to be involved is at the edge of the 'drop-off'. Many of the Engagement League members have hit lows after starting out brightly, and if I had an icecream for the number of times people had told me the the EL is what kept them here I'd be a fatty.

Engaging and commenting is key to surviving that drop, and I'm hoping those still here will be sticking with us to enjoy that tasty looking list you've presented above.

Cheers Matt!

I was wondering, when does this 'drop off' generally happen? I only really started posting seriously a few months ago, but I feel like my engagement has been pretty consistent. In fact, I had just the opposite effect. Although I've always put in a good amount of effort in my posts, when I started off I was getting literally 0-4 upvotes and it actually increased over time.

Well, it's always up and down, but I don't ever really remember experiencing any kind of drop off.

I guess it won't always happen. If you set your expections right from the start and have been consistently engaging, steady growth could well occur.

I suspect that a number of the accounts experiencing less interaction joined around Xmas 2017 when the place was buzzing, just in time for a 7 month decline in price and activity.

Yeah, that would make sense! This crypto market has gotten pummeled this year.

I'm just going to keep pushing forward. You have to believe in the technology as a whole and not get caught up in the coin frenzy.. At least that is how I see it!

I still manually go through the introduceyourself new and trending categories almost daily to look for promising new accounts to personally welcome them. It's enjoyable to me. As a PI it is a bit like people watching I suppose, and I don't like how most replies to those posts are bots. Quality new people deserve to be welcomed by humans! :)

Well i'm glad there are some humans still doing this arduous task. Hopefully the message is to gently tell them to stick at it and get involved :)

ditto. though i go hunting plagiarism.
sadly, i make more from that than i do posting :(

Yes, I used to give 4K of SP to smartsteem when prices were higher. It just isn't worth it though when I can engage people directly to make almost as much and better connect with others. The delegation was when I was mostly away and not active too.

There's a little money to be made for sure from reporting stuff using! I will report people for tag abuse for one example. I also keep an eye out for pedo crap to report. One of the reasons I became a PI was to fight child predators, and I don't want them or their content ruining the platform.

No worries, mate :)
Appreciate the resteem, too.
If they had a bit of context I think our retention levels could really jump.
It's just hard to stay motivated when they're apparently going downhill.

I agree. Let's face it though, most accounts arrive when the money is sloshing around, are uninterested in community, and have their own views on what is best for them.

My old boss had a saying, that 90% of his time and attention went to please his most difficult 10% of customers; who were responsible for 1% of his profits.
Not all punters are assets.

Let 'em go.
No Lambo.
Can't hold 'em back any more.

Cool. Didn't know about that.

Nice :)
I'm wondering how much of my score comes from being here early.
A lot of people who are more popular than me seem to be scoring lower.

It sounds like it is all about growing steemit in a positive welcoming way. Hopefully a win win. Thanks for sharing @mattclarke

Where do you check this new profile score/rank at? You never say in your article.

The introduction of Reputation Metric is a welcome innovation here on Steemit. I would advice Steemit community members who invites friends or love ones on the platform to do all the can to ensure adequate education and encouragements are given to them for their effective participation on the platform.


Not sure what to think of the new UA, as of yet. I'm glad they are still actively working on it, and now working with @paulag to give more weight to "site participation."

As for recommending Steemit to friends, I honestly haven't much. But with the SteemPeak front end roaring into the arena, I think I might become more likely to... my hesitation has always been this reluctance to tell people who are used to plug-and-play modern widget driven interfaces to suddenly come use a circa 2002 message board interface. It's "too difficult" for the average social media user. So even with people I personally KNOW, retention would most likely suck.

That'll help. The more metrics they incorporate, the better. She's put the time in on that, as has scipio.
Looking forward to seeing what they come up with.

we are not working together. I am friends with some of the team and have given them suggestions but that about it.

Sorry, misunderstood! Thought I'd read a couple of comments somewhere that there was more cooperation, my mistake.

That said, I DO hope "site participation" is given some weight, because otherwise I fear it will just become yet another richlist.

Congratulations @mattclarke! You have completed the following achievement on Steemit and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

Award for the number of upvotes

Click on the badge to view your Board of Honor.
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP

Do you like SteemitBoard's project? Then Vote for its witness and get one more award!

Hmm. I didn't use any photo in my #introduceyourself post and I've also not exceeded that 3 line post limit, may I hope a resteem from you? 😜

Look, I'm commenting to get a follow and increase my UA. But who knows, I'm a stupid anyway!

BTW, would you like stupid as your follower?

Thank you for your continued support of SteemSilverGold