Engineering Update: Wallet Change Feedback

in #steemit2 years ago

Screen Shot 2019-04-04 at 12.56.58 PM.png

Hello Steemians, the intended purpose of our Engineering Updates has been to keep the community informed of what we’re doing, but one of the biggest lessons we learned this week is that just because we’ve increased communications doesn’t mean the majority of users are receiving the information they need.

Wallet Changes

This week we rolled out changes to steemit.com that caught users by surprise. Most of the work we do is actually in the backend, so when we think about improving steemit.com, we think about improving “Condenser,” the Open Source software that powers steemit.com. We’ve been releasing regular updates about our plan to “split Condenser,” but what we should have been explaining was how this would affect the user experience on steemit.com.

Rather than going into the details of this change and why it was absolutely critical, we feel it’s more important to let you know that the feedback provided has been incredibly useful and we are already working to organize and integrate this feedback into steemit.com and steemitwallet.com so that we can deliver the user experience you desire. We will summarize some of the feedback and solutions we are considering here, and we would appreciate any additional feedback in the comments section below.

Communication

The biggest lesson has been that “more” information isn’t always better. We need a way to show users especially important updates. Addressing this issue was one of the intentions behind the “Updates Log” but that is clearly not sufficient. 60% of steemit.com users are on mobile devices and don’t see the log at all, and we suspect that even those using steemit.com on computers no longer notice the log. For that reason we are considering adding a “Featured Post” section to the top of feeds. Not only could we use this functionality to highlight important updates from our team, but we could also use it to feature high quality content from community members, or offer that space as an incentive for great content creators to join the platform.

But we also understand that this isn’t just a software problem. Our work is incredibly technical, but our product is intended to be used by everyone‒not just engineers. That’s why we intend to work more directly with community members to ensure that the information we are communicating, and the way we are communicating it, is the information people actually want.

Password Problems

If you are having sign in problems, odds are that you are–and always have been–signing in with your Master Password which is not the same as your Active or Owner key. First, don’t panic. If you’ve been able to sign into steemit.com and perform both social and token-related features, then you can regain access to every feature you need. @llfarms has written a great post that will walk you through resolving whatever issues you are experiencing.

To learn more about your Master Password and private keys, you can also check out our Steem Basics post here or watch the following video:

Screen Shot 2019-02-20 at 1.55.11 PM.png

We have received a lot of feedback on how we can better guide users through the process of retrieving and using the proper keys and we plan to continue improving both the user interface and the copy so that it is easy and intuitive for users. The critical challenge is that it is simply not safe for users to be using their Master Password to do everything on Steem. We are confident we can make the experience of using multiple private keys easy and intuitive over time, but this change had to be made to keep users safe before scaling to the next level.

Stuck In steemitwallet.com

Another common piece of feedback is that users feel they are getting “stuck” in steemitwallet.com. There appear to be two scenarios causing this outcome. Both can be mitigated by making it easier to get back to steemit.com from the wallet. We’ve already coded up the addition of a “Read Blog” tab to the wallet page so that users will have a one-click solution for getting back to steemit.com, but we don't intend to stop there. We want the experience of going between steemit.com and steemitwallet.com to totally seamless. One interesting piece of feedback that was especially insightful was the idea that visually distinguishing steemitwallet.com from steemit.com might actually make the transition between sites more intuitive and that is definitely something we are now considering.

Thank You

The most important lesson we’ve learned from this experience is that we need to do a better job of communicating with our users both before and after a feature is released. Your feedback on this important change has been incredibly informative and will significantly impact the software solutions we release in the immediate future as well as the long term. We want you to help guide the evolution of steemit.com, so please leave more feedback in the comments section below, and don’t forget that you can explore your ideas even further in a steemit.com blog post! We’d love to read them!

The Steemit Team

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"Stuck in steemitwallet" --> The wallet site needs a big button or menu that routes people back to Steemit.com. It's a one-way, dead end street at the moment for anyone who wants to use Steemit. I don't even think you need to keep the Steemitwallet site branded or separated as it is (which is just confusing to most users); just let people believe they are on Steemit and move seemlessly back and forth using buttons/links, even if the actual domains are separate.

Great feedback, thanks @donkeypong

Agreed 100% it is just annoying going back and forth. As you said there is totally no need to see that you are switching between the 2. Once you logged into both. Simple logo difference will do. AMD also the page name on top of browser should indicate

We have added a 'Blog' tab that takes you back to steemit.com from viewing a user's (or your own) wallet.

Thanks for the feedback @donkeypong

Screen Shot 2019-04-04 at 5.34.53 PM.png

On the Steemitwallet page, where it has a button for Steemitwallet on the top left...why is that even there? Just put the Steemit logo there and let people just navigate back to the content site that way. Overall, this splitting change is good, but people don't need to know there are two different sites or what goes on behind the scenes, nor do most users care. What they want is the smooth experience of a retail user; that's really missing with this change. I hope there's someone working there who can provide feedback on design changes from the intuitive perspective of an average user.

I second this!

I really hope they listen to you on this!!

Hi @justinw are you one the developer or support team? I find it hard to find you guys. I hope you add your team to followed by default for new users.

Anyway, I hope you can assist me. I am new and is having a problem with the Profile settings. Please see the description here. https://steemit.com/steemit/@ranman09/no-profile-settings-on-steemit-settings

Hi @ranman09 - I see another user already answered your question on your post, but just in case someone else is wondering, the answer is that these settings are now in the wallet, under the 'settings' tab. The reason for this is that the blockchain requires an active key in order to change these settings and the social app does not handle active keys at all.

Thank you so much for that information!

thats exactly what i wanted to say! thank you :)

Haha this was my point as soon as I noticed, you explain it much better.
Someone even told me the solution was to close it and open steemit again. No that isn't the solution, it's the problem.

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Unobtrusive


Thankfully @ned listened

i think the only reason for the wallet spilt is to double revenue from advertising by having the same users/viewers being forced to be counted twice

In that case, their time on the site is reduced anyway. I don't think it matters, since they can count them here or there and sell ads here or there.

not really people spend more time in their wallet than looking at posts
also this would count users twice for nothing by redirecting

https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/steemit.com

https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/steemitwallet.com

Well done non-defensive and great explanation of what happened and how it will be improved.

I would suggest that a continued effort be made to bring down the difficulty level.

The users who are the most impacted are mainstream users who have no idea why they have 4 sets of keys, and which ones to use. This is how I started too. My account and my wallet grew at about the same rate, so by the time security mattered it wasn't so daunting to understand the keys. Also consider making the KEY names more meaningful. APP keys (posting) and Wallet (active) Keys is one suggestion and would be easy to train. APP does anything but wallets actions. Wallet Keys are for all things wallet. The Owner Key should be "Permissions and Advanced Settings"

Just ideas to keep the site user friendly as well as secure.

Andy stated at one point your employees would be using the site. I see that as part of the problem. Those who are making the most important decisions are out of touch with the user base and the tools and have an inability to understand how changes will impact endusers.

People save their passwords here like anywhere else... that is a normal use case on MOST of the Internet.
If you sign up for a new site that requires "Training" just to login that is a large barrier to entry, and the double logins while maybe necessary and simple to many of you. Extra clicks, steps and page loads are usually a turn off to any end user.

I think sometimes you guys forget how much you know about crypto and you expect others to see it as simply as you do. For most mainstream users this is an entirely different experience. :)

Thanks for the update.

I would suggest that a continued effort be made to bring down the difficulty level.

Before we can ever hope to onboard the masses there is a massive need for removing the technical jargon and overcomplicated nonsense that surrounds Steem. RC's, VP, SP, Steem SBD, different recharge rates for VP and RC's, multiple keys, upvotes, flags, dust vote levels, curation, lost curation rewards for voting early, and so forth are all hurdles to a new person.

People don't like to feel stupid. They would rather just say screw these snobby jackasses and all their nonsense I'll stay on facebook and Instagram.

So, I've been helping quite a few users through the change and have been reading lots of posts and comments and chats. Here's some suggestions based on that information:

  • Make sure next time a bigger roll-out happens it gets 'announced' properly: for example that blue bar on top of Steemit.com right now could be used to read something like: 'big change happening in 5 days, make sure you do xxx so you are prepared for this change'. This way people will feel prepared and are not in shock from the sudden change. Of course this still would not inform everyone, but more than were informed now.
  • I personally appreciate the Engineering Updates, but I know how to read them. Most people don't. Maybe make it more fun and add a 'Translation for non-techies' paragraph at the end of each post. In this case it could have read: in a few weeks you will not be able to reach your wallet through steemit.com anymore, but will be directed to a new/dedicated website. The advantage of this 'split' is amongst others better security for your STEEM holdings, safer usage of keys amongst all Steemians, and possibly faster development on steemit.com because risks for mistakes that weaken the safety of the wallet have been removed'. Even better: make a separate post once a month: What did we talk about in our technical posts that you should know about? - with a catchy title you would grab a lot of ReSteems and more 'normie' users would know about the changes happening.

In general I would suggest to take a 'mobile first' approach for everything. I've really enjoyed the 'logs' in the right sidebar, but I've learned throughout the years brainstorming/developing app ideas that people want to be able to do most things on mobile, plus in most African countries the whole 'desktop' phase was skipped, instead immediately going on mobile. So make it work on mobile and then translate to desktop.

Just some thoughts.

Personally I'm very happy with the progress you are all making on the communication front. It's a huge change from a year ago, and I personally feel very well informed. It's not just better it's also very consistent. Keep up the good work and with a few minor tweaks there will come a point where you will get kuddos from everyone, since the communication is readable and understandable for everyone.

Cheers!

for example that blue bar on top of Steemit.com right now could be used to read something like: 'big change happening in 5 days, make sure you do xxx so you are prepared for this change'.

💯

Thanks for the timing of getting this out @andrarchy. I was trying to help counter a bit of the ... uhhh ... "aggravation " caused by this change, by pointing out it had been communicated, but I suppose there can never be too much communication.

Or, probably more to the point, more communication in "every man" language that crosses both language and cultural barriers. "Piece of cake" right? Not asking too much right? 😉

Seriously, I for one appreciate all that is going on currently to make the Steem blockchain better in the future. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for helping to counter the aggravation. Glad you think this helps and thanks for the kind words.

I don’t mind the separation, I’ve already gotten into the habit of just keeping the wallet open in a separate tab. The two UI bits I’ve noticed that bug me are... (note: someone may have already mentioned these, and this is experienced on iOS Safari for me...)

  1. After successfully logging in, I remain on the login screen. The only indication that the login was successful is my avatar appearing in the top nav, where I have to go manually click to the actual wallet page. A successful login should auto redirect to this.

  2. There is a “keep me logged in checkbox” that seemingly does nothing. I’d prefer it to work with reauthentications every 30 days maybe... but right now I’m needing to log in every time. Could use a fix or total removal if you want to get extra secure by requiring login every time. But I feel comfortable with it working on devices that are already locked/protected.

Keeping one's wallet open is a security risk, though. You'll probably be okay, but if every user did that, it wouldn't be long before it caused major problems. I'm sure this change wasn't meant to CAUSE security risks for users...

That behavior definitely doesn't sound right. Great feedback

Hey, @andrarchy.

Just to piggyback onto what @bryan-imhoff said, I'm having the exact same issue of needing to constantly log in despite having the 'keep me logged in' box checked. I've been using Firefox, so it's not just Safari this is happening in.

Same issue here on chrome, no matter what change I do, going to settings, refreshing the page, all these things log me out.

Posted using Partiko iOS

We're looking into it. Thanks for letting us know!

i found that if I logged in with my active key rather than my posting key ... the keep me logged in didn't work... logging in with the posting key.. no problem... I stay logged in using chrome.

Likewise. And I simply use keychain and Steemworld.org to access my wallet now. Keychain can log me in automatically when I click the wallet tab.

Personally I had very little problem with the change. I am wondering why however we must redeem payouts. Why not just add it to our totals. This would mean fewer visits to our wallets.

I think that's something with the steem blockchain, you have to claim your rewards for them to be added to your balance. However, there are tools out there I believe to automate this... I think @justyy may have made such a thing?

Cheers:)

@steemitblog,
Yeah now when we click on Wallet it goes to a new tab! Last time it wasn't and that was the problem for me! Now everything just fine and work smoothly! That's enough, and now feel more secure than before too! Thank you for the update!

Cheers~

Dear #steemitblog
The way you are trying to represent yourself is just a business promotion. What's said about wallet, similar to the old car coloring suit. In today's writing, no new shadow is seen. Although trying to bring two new proposals, the suspicion could not free himself from the net. Maybe free at any time. Try the poor people to get rid of the freedom easily. All of you should be beneficial for your engineering, this is the wish of today.

Could you remove the "Important Changes to Steemit.com and Wallet, click here." message, which appears at the top of EVERY Steemit page, even though it's a 3-day-old announcement, and even when users click the "x" to get rid of it??

Good work gals and guys glad to see acting being taken on feedback which is like your QA team really lol Keep up the good work and thank you for all that you are doing.

I get the security improvement, but it would be nice if on a mobile phone you could still claim your rewards with just your posting key. I won't use my Active key on a mobile at all. Now I need to sign into my desktop computer once a day with steem connect just to get rewards. This feature could be a one way feature, no transfers, no withdrawal's just the ability to claim rewards.

Brave browser helps a lot. I tried it and worked great.
Separation is good but seamless will be great.

Posted using Partiko iOS

Maybe the issue isn's so much that you're not communicating, but that others aren't paying attention....?

Just a thought. I don't use Steemit frontend. I'm involved with many communitites and engage... I it was very clear what was happening, why, and how it would work. I think y'all are doing a great job!

You are getting better at communicating. I felt informed about the changes.
You are fighting a legacy of bad communication. It will take some time to gain trust. Just keep moving in the right direction.

Posted using Partiko Android

Good to know. Thanks!

Slow and steady progress is a good way to go in my opinion.

But some people want immediate and precise solutions and don't understand what effort you put into this project.

Safety in the most important thing.

But at the same time, they are careless and too lazy to even save their keys.

Thanks for your feedback and encouragement @oldtimer 🙂

You're welcome. Thanks.
People don't realize how big is the responsibility and what kind of money will be in play in the future.

Making it easier to get back and forth will be great.

Making a less complicated posts for us non technical types would be great!!
Thank you.

Posted using Partiko iOS

That additional tab on Steemit Wallet would be quite helpful. Even pressing back on the browser does not take you back to Steemit.com. You are simply stuck on the wallet.

Hi @deniskj - we have added a 'Blog' tab that takes you back to steemit.com from the wallet. There was also a bug with back button behavior that has been resolved. Thanks!

Spotted the change. Thank you.

Another issue I noticed- When looking at my curation or author rewards it links to the post that earned said rewards, the problem being that now the link has been changed to steemitwallet.com/(insert post url here) which is not a valid address.

Could you make sure that the links point to the correct URL of the posts that received the rewards ?

Can not find profile edit. Do you also need to edit your profile in your wallet?
I think that something is not appropriate.

and steemitwallet has a link error.

I will be connected to the address below.
https://steemitwallet.com/@roundbeargames/character-movement-or-2-5d-platformer-or-unity-tutorial

And login will be released continuously.
I checked the option to keep at login.

My issues seem to be the same as everyone else. When I click on my wallet it opens in a new tab (which is handy) but when I click on someone elses wallet I am redirected to their steemit wallet page and stuck there. The back arrow doesn't take you back and there are no links back to steemit.

Once I find my way back to steemit I have to log in again because as others have mentioned, despite having 'keep me logged in' checked, I must enter my information again. To be fair this is something that has always annoyed me, while logged in if I click to open a steemit link in a new tab I must log in on that tab as well.

We're looking into this issue.

Any word on the other issue I listed?

"When looking at my curation or author rewards it links to the post that earned said rewards, the problem being that now the link has been changed to steemitwallet.com/(insert post url here) which is not a valid address.

Could you make sure that the links point to the correct URL of the posts that received the rewards?"

Given that SP delegations are a core feature of the STEEM platform, the official wallet should support it.

Hey @steemitblog, wouldn't keychain solve all these wallet problems?

Many users still use their master passwords...

We definitely plan to integrate keychain. But no it wouldn't solve all these wallet problems because many users will not download an additional application to use another application. We also cannot guarantee the security of Keychain.

Cool! Looking forward to your keychain integration!


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@steemitblog , @andrarchy

  1. The SteemitWallet does not reveal keys properly. I am having trouble still, when I click reveal on the passwords and permissions page, it returns me and does not reveal. Click again, it says enter password again. Repeat and no reveal.
  2. I am already seeing users having issues, posting on facebook that they are not able to login. Please fix this. Many new users are going to quit because of this split. Some already have.

@steemitblog Thank you for the updates on the new system, really appreciate the work you continuously do to improve @steemit.

Just one more thing, why have the 2 platforms open in new windows? you should be able to go between the 2 in the same window, that way even though you are switching between platforms it seems as though it is one and the same site? so when you click wallet or blog the link is set to _self instead of _blank

I know I and others brought this point up before already. I just think that would just make it less clunky and probably less confusing.

The main problem with opening in new windows comes in when you viewing someone else's blog and you click their wallet you now end up with multiple windows open.

LMAO, buddy, YOU don't have enough information. This isn't a good idea, we are complaining thusly. Lmao, a communication error? That's so funny. Why don't you do something useful like list delegatees on the wallet page and add an SP delegate form. Maybe bring back SBD conversion so we don't have to do it manually? How about we ADD tools that are necessary to really use STEEM and remove obstacles that make it more difficult for people to understand how STEEM works. This beautiful bird has big wings. But she can only spread them if they aren't being chained down by a bog of unneccessary division. I speak of course on the division of the Steemit website into two, the poor decision of the Steemit team, and the division between a group of people who clearly don't listen to the public and the public at large. You forget the existence of @partiko among other blockchain explorers. You have competition.

Hello,

Thank you for the update on the wallet. It helped me understand more about the overall network of Steem. Also being a sender of information is very difficult because you need to select the important messages so they are easily received.

Over and Out,
CoinChaos
Steem Explorer #1

I really love it that you are taking time to communicate effectively. Though I am not personally having issues with the updates and changes on password usage, I know some users do. This post is quite informative.

I am glad that you prioritize user's security information which is amajor reason behind the changes.

Thanks Steemit Inc.

Great to hear! Thanks!

Why even have an "x" close button on the annoying of-interest-only-to-technical-people blue wallet post alert bar if it's only going to respawn every single page/app load?

How come you are no longer working for Inc?

Appreciated all that is going on currently to make the Steem blockchain better in the future. Keep up the good work! @andrarchy
@llfarms

I think using wallet.steemit.com would have been a much better idea than using steemitwallet.com. Can't you separate out the subdomain the same way as a top level domain with the servers and security??

I'm on a mobile device and the wallet opened in a separate tab for me, so no issues with getting stuck on it. However, every time I did anything I got logged out after. Did a power up, had to log back in to do a transfer. This is tedious if I want to make several transfers which. Perhaps it was because it would get stuck on something, them I'd go back or refresh because processing was taking so long.

Posted using Partiko Android

Personally I had very little problem with the change. I am wondering why however we must redeem payouts. Why not just add it to our totals @steemitblog @andrarchy

I like this post because it listen the voice/feedback of steemians. This is lovely steps for future development. Hope this will continue.
Love this post communication.

  1. The worst thing about the wallet i see is that i have to open the wallet just to see my balance. Thats annoying. You could have left everything where it was and just created a new icon for the wallet on the top bar (See whaleshares.).. The "old wallet" would show the balance and would be non interactive. Opening a new tab every time i want to see my balance is very annoying..

  2. Another thing is that im not a fan of the font.

  3. Concerning the locked out folks... Firstly I dont understand how they have not already saved their keys. Secondly, if the passwords are browser saved it literally takes 1 second to open the passwords tab and copy the saved password from there.

I dont get the backlash over the keys but i do think Steemit.inc (and any front end) need (and im putting this in bold for a reason) a set of professionally made tutorial videos and a glossary that is easily accessible from the home page
Thats actually where this video you made should be. Easily accessible.

the wallet page doesn't even work what the hell is that

Can't the wallet also display available RC and Voting power? Those are basics that we have to use multiple tools to be able to see, sure would be nice if I just bought some drugs with steem and see oh you know I am awfully close to 100% VP let me go vote so I can curation for more drugs. Rc is more for smaller users... Since I can be bothered with my RC ... Don't you just love that gap between the classes. Just like real life :)

Usually I never do that but I almost hate that new update separation for wallet from Steemit. It's super unhandy. Maybe you can create at least something like oldsteemit com for retrousers where we will have our features back working together in one place?

One more frustrating thing is that wallet in Russian and I can not set it to English

This is now fixed, thanks for the report!

@roadscape Oh, great! Would you mind telling me where I can change the language? In https://steemitwallet.com/@dunsky/settings I have no settings for language and it is by default setting wallet to Russian...

hello, i am very new and a bit confused . When I now go on wallet it takes me to another site- and do I need to login there to do something with the wallet and with which key? maybe very basic question for very new steemers it is a big problem to get used to all the functions etc. hope it is ok so ask that very basic things but i guess a lot of beginners are also wondering. for german speaking people:
gibt es ein tutorial für die neue wallet seite auf die man weiter geleiett wird ev auch Deutsch? danke

Thank you for this post.

Now, after two days of using the new wallet, I'm used to it. Getting stuck in wallet means I log into Steemit again so it isn't too much of a problem just an annoyance.

Password problems haven't been a problem for me as I have a system for them. I think users with password problems have to take some responsibility for being able to access them. Maybe you could suggest basic copy and paste for those who said they were typing their passwords incorrectly.

I find the sidebar of updates useful. After a short while, I predict that a featured post won't be read by many users any more than the sidebar is. People go blind to it because they are in a hurry to post in their own way. Featured posts may interest the admins but it takes some dedication to update them regularly and even more dedication for users to check them out regularly.

It would be helpful if there was an @helpdesk that we could ask questions. It's often hard for users to know who to ask for help. I always ask on Discord if I need help but not everyone is registered on Discord.

Thank again for this helpful post.

We always learn and you guys improve and adapt, great job. :)

Posted using Partiko Android

Just be like Justin Sun and have 5-6 updates a day 🤣

Posted using Partiko iOS

Lol, we do have work to do you know! 🤣

This isn't working out. Site is slow as hell, I have to try and login every time I click anything, it sucks. And chat doesn't work with ANY of the damn keys I useScreenshot_20190406-095811.png

steemit wallet has another problem, every time I do a transfer or power up, I am forced to reload the whole page, since the mini popup loads infinitely, even if I click on the x, resolve as soon as possible

I'm sure everyone knows the various payment solutions which can be integrated in different websites then, when payment is done, return to the original website.

I wonder if in the future something similar can be done with Steemitwallet.com...

This is helpful. Thank you.

Posted using Partiko Android

Is the "keep me logged in" option meant to do something? Currently, it doesn't.

including navigation User Friendly easier to use is most important ! :) ♥♩♬

Posted using Partiko Android

Integrate BTC & ETH wallet to steemitwallet and also can be add more wallets to steemit wallets.

Dear @steemitblog, there is nothing in my wallet called, "Master Password." The tutorials make reference to a "Master Password."
It's was confusing.
A "Master Password" is not the same as an "Owner Key", right?

BTW, thanks for trying to keep us safe.

First time I read this post I thought the wallet is embeddable. Seems I'm wrong 😞

I'm logging into my wallet at least 3 times more often than I was before the 'upgrade'. Since my key isn't saved in my browner, this increase means I'm spending a LOT of my time retrieving and entering my password. This is also a security risk. Each time it has to be done, there is a chance of interception. Tripling the chance of security risk, for what gain?
This upgrade was a downgrade. Please, fix this!

Thank you for responding to our feedback!
Side question: is there a reason whenever I do a transaction in my wallet, it does it, but the window that pops up where I confirm and whatnot does not go away, and if I want to do another transaction, I have to close the tab entirely and re-sign in to my wallet? The little "x" in the corner doesn't close it, either - it just acts like it's still thinking, even after the transaction is done. And this is on a laptop. Thanks!

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