Forking out the largest stake on a stake based system shifts power to who?

in #thoughts3 years ago (edited)

Sorry for the very fast posting schedule but this just came to mind so wanted to get it out for some discussion before Irun off to the grocery store.

This is a stake based system and if Steem was forked out, who benefits the most? Wouldn't it be the largest accounts that are on the platform, wouldn't Freedom be the largest single stakeholder as well as the bidbot owners? So without the stake there, essentially all control gets shifted to the next largest holders which are almost all witnesses and bot operators or their main delegators. Is that a better situation considering then there would be no recourse for action?

The inflation pool is drawn upon from the stake and at the moment Steem Inc has some control over the draw from the delegations they hand out to dApps. But if there stake was removed, the dApps (who generally don't pay for the delegation) lose their ability to distribute and then nearly the entire ecosystem is under control of the stake put into bidbots for profit. They become incredibly powerful as they essentially have doubled their stake once the dApps lose their delegations.

Since the delegations aren't paid for, most users aren't going to delegate to the dApps and instead choose to stake with bidbots as they are the only place to get a decent return on their stake. That would make it essentially an entirely pay to play system wouldn't it?

At last count I think there were something like 8 bidbot operators in the top 20 witness group and I think most of them are voted in there by Freedom, which if Steem got forked to remove the ninja-mined stake would become the largest account on the platform by a long way.

All of the timing of this is suspect in many ways and the entire process has been poorly handled by people claiming to want what is best for the Steem. Is it for Steem or is it to support their own agenda? Dunno, but there are many questions involved with very few answers likely.

[ a Steem original ]


Is it for Stem or is it to support their own agenda?

I guess that's what they call a rhetorical question! lol

Everything everyone does is a selfish act at the core.

I agree.
I think it's more 'gene selfish', rather than anything else.
Genes are the driver of this machine we call a body - we're just egotistical, and think we're in charge.

Genes are not egotistical so if suits their purposes, are more than happy to let us think that.

Because I'm dumber than bag of rocks who's just been kicked out of remedial class - in a school specially made for slow learners....'s my question!

..if steem price goes up 10x from what it is now (say 0.38) to $3.80/4...does this mean my rewards go up correspondingly? (50 cents to $5?)

I don't think it does, but you know a lot more than me..

The only reason I ask is that my original idea of joining steemit was to try and be 'making' $10-15 a day from my writing.
With my growing numbers - and based on the calculation above (and a very rough look at my $ rewards on the posts) - it would mean that I've hit my plan in those terms.
(obviously with the slight hiccup of steemprice at the moment).

....just a ball park number will suffice - don't have to think about it too much - and if you can type through the tears of laughter, at having to respond to such a dumb question..

Humor me , it's Sunday !


To even suggest that the stake of Steemit Inc be forked away is both very stupid as the chances of success are very questionable as well as immoral if not outright criminal. In fact, it would put the credibility of the chain at serious jeopardy. Who would invest in the chain if the oligarchs in power could steal anybody's stake at any time? Nothing good has came out of the proposal so far. DSound and Musing have lost their one million SP delegations and have become effectively defunct. Thank you so much whoever put together the proposal and put the code on GitHub!

THe only good that has come out of it is seeing a little more of what goes on off-chain.

I know it might need 1000 “average” accounts to balance freedom’s votes...

I am not against bots, I just don’t like the fact that those who run them are witnesses...
Is that what we really want / need from our witnesses?

The problem isn't really even that they are witnesses running bots as much as they are witnesses running bots who are top witnesses because of their main delegator.

The problem isn't really even that they are witnesses running bots

I actually think that this is exactly the problem Taraz...
You see, if witnesses (and I mean all of them) didn't run bots, freedom's votes would have probably been casted with different criteria...I think you know what I mean

There is freedom of action for witnesses to to some extent as they also have stake. The issue is that without Stincs stake, all top 30 are locked up and, distribution is almost entirely dependent on Freedom alone with no way to counteract it. I don't think it decentralizes it much.

I was assuming that there was a reason for naming the hardfork, "Freedom".

Ding ding we have a winner! I've been mostly trying to inform steemians that freedom an anon investor has control of this place for over a month now. The irony is not lost on me, freedom lol, I am so relieved to see a post that seeks to unearth how beholden the bidbot witnesses are to freedom, and also don't forget basically all the top 20 are freedom pawns. Realwolf is teetering near the top 20, I've admittedly been trolling him as to me he is purely a shill and posts nothing but feel good garbage that is always self promotion and politically driven. You can't have a your Vote counts or community building post and also sell yourself, self vote and promote smartsteem all at once..This guy between his two accounts I know of took 6000 USD last month for his I'm the good guy, look Im getting steem listed on stateofdapps junk.

Sorry I just don't like the guy at all, but my point is his antics have worked and that's because he has been groomed for the top, so imagine what the other top witnesses motivations are and have been.

Aggroed seems genuinely legit and has found himself at the top spot, but the entire basically top 30 could change in an instant if freedom so chooses, and that's in the current economic structure.

I've been here 3 months, i knew nothing about blockchain but after a few weeks I'd figured out this was a microcosm of global economics at best and at worst a conspiracy theorists Illuminati gone pseudo decentralized to prey on the crypto fever having internet dwellers wet dream. Nothing from my perspective gives me any reason to invest more than toilet time or insomniac entertainment to this place.

I have learned a great deal, but I've also seen the evolution and the writing on the walls for this failed experiment..

Can it be salvaged? Maybe, but doubtful.

Will steem ever see mass adoption?
No! At least not for many years and that's if it doesn't implode.

At least for me, someone that's sticking around for entertainment first, and learning more about tech and blockchain in general this drama is fantastic!

Oh also a bunch of dimwits posting I promise to be good and not take anyone's stake isn't binding and means fuck all. If I had flag power I'd nail it all as the spam it is... Take the trash out!

Agree, better to deal with those we know than to deal with the uncertainty of those we don’t. Also, the fact that Steemit has been the sole developer of the underlying code is something that makes the thought of not having them involved without a proper transition more risky.

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Ever been through a CEO change where the new one has to flex muscles and change everything, broken or not? Imagine the same thing in the cryptosphere with people who largely have no business sense or patience.

Been thinking on the same lines. Working out what the agenda is and who benefits the most will lead to the answers on this one.

Or at least some part of what is going on behind the scenes.

I believe now the power will be shifted to the people which to me is a good thing , so that there will be no one controlling the blockchain with their huge stakes. Now we are truly going to experience a real decentralized platform where the power , whereby the system is be run and manage by the masses

Since Steemit don't vote for witnesses, not much will change there but,

Forking them out is not a good move for the blockchain, it is theft or vandalism.

For what it’s worth, I’m learning a lot about how Steemit actually works from all the post detailing people’s reasons and argumentation 😄

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It is one of the positives of these types of things imo. Same with the other screwups like HF20 and the like.

Amazing post @tarazkp with valid points.

I believe this deserves a resteem from people like @ned, @andrarchy @exyle @s3rg3 @blockbrothers @kenmelendez, @gadrian, @steemcafe and if he's willing @therealwolf.

Forking out @steemit @steemitblog might break the system we have - Our current system isn't perfect, but it still works!

It just raises more questions perhaps but there is always ore to every story.

I am probably one of the few people that likes the results Ned and Steemit achieved (with the help of people like @therealwolf of course).

We have a large share of the Top 10 Dapps on and if we can hold it down, I think we will eventually dominate @tarazkp.

Everyone just needs to hold it together and keep moving forward.

Everyone just needs to hold it together and keep moving forward.

What is going on now is definitely not what I would consider, 'Everyone just needs to hold it together and keep moving forward.'

Well... what do you think is the actual problem with the Steem blockchain?

And what do you think the best course of action is? @tarazkp

It seems the large cats always benefit the most in life. It all goes back to money and control. Thanks for sharing @tarazkp

Ha, exactly. We want more decentralization but this strategy will not work in that regard.

I don't know much about this forking issue at all, i guess it's something all crypto faces. It might be part of the natural evolution, or it might be a disaster. It wwould be interesting to know STEEM's concentration of ownership compared to other cryptos, it seems they are all top heavy.

Umm If I remember correctly, Steem is one of the most distributed out there. I think XRP was 97% in 10 wallets or something ludicrous.

Yes, i think their CEO/inventor was like nearly the richest man in the world for a week (-:

I get most of my upvotes from steem-ua, steemhunt, and i only just realized all 3 have huge stin(k) delegations. If that steem were sold this place would just have more self upvoting. It wouldn't make things better.

Is it for Steem or is it to support their own agenda? Dunno, but there are many questions involved with very few answers likely.

Ah come on my friend. You always so shy to imply things up. };)

Aren't all the perpetrators of these tantrums, whining, moaning, sniffs and sobs brashly obvious?


Forking out Steemit Inc benefits Freedom. And who is Freedom? We don't know. At least now Steemit Inc doesn't vote for witnesses. But with the fork it would be colossal power and money grab for Freedom.

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I have suspicions there are a lot of hidden relationships on this platform and across other platforms too.

Somebody just suggested an idea that freedom might be Steemit's another account. One of many we don't know about because they constantly send steem to exchanges and from there it could get sold or could get sent into other accounts and then nobody will know where the money really came from.

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I have suspected the same for a long time. At least someone close to them.

witnesses need term limits :P

lol. perhaps they should form parties, maybe be divided across some lines.. I know, left, right and center... there could be elections every so often too so everyone can really have a say... and every Thursday a televised view of what they get up to.

Siiick. This is a bad dream. Let the cat poke me in the eye- where is that bastard when I need him most?