Steem Consensus Witness Statement : Hardfork 0.23 (Codename: New Steem)

in #witness-category5 months ago

Dear Steemians,

Many things have happened since February, and we believe that this is time to wrap up and move on. The Steem blockchain has been under constant attack from malicious accounts and this has heavily influenced user experience, Dapps useability, and the stability of the chain itself.


Note that 22.8888 was previously implemented as a temporary, reversible measure to resolve issues.

Unlike 22.2 (where now-hive witnesses froze Steem Inc. related accounts (total amount 65M SP, worth about 13 million USD) without any public discussion or notice), 22.8888 was different in two ways:

(1) pre-announcement was made so that community had time to discuss and affected accounts could make changes (for example, powerdown routes), and

(2) the reasons were based on what actually happened ("HIVE" chain split), while for 22.2 the reasons were based on something that did not happen (it was mere speculation like "it may happen" or "it is likely to happen", argued by some 22.2 witnesses)


Since 22.8888, we have observed even more negative actions, including (but not limited to)

(1) Intentionally undermining network stability by running different versions of the witness nodes and/or spamming malicious transactions (note that this can be solved by Hardfork as these transactions will now be ignored)

(2) Spamming meaningless or hostile post/replies, to displease Steem users and render the ecosystem unattractive for the existing user base and all potential new users, PO, and investors,

(3) Negatively and severely affecting the ecosystem by siphoning the rewards pool and using bots to automate the farm-and-dump on the chain without any care given to the PoB concept. The purpose of these malicious activities was to push users away from Steem by allocating part of the reward pool to their farming circles in the aim to highly lower the rewards that genuine authors are getting, engaging in heavy farming by recycling and posting stolen content to damage the SEO advantage that the community has built during the past 4 years, in addition to putting huge selling pressure on STEEM to keep people away from it by continuously dumping all the STEEM generated by the farming,

(4) Spreading FUD, rumors, and targeted disinformation, along with attacking, doxing, and publicly shaming users with different opinions.

Thus, witnesses have decided to make changes with HF to protect Steem network stability, enhance Steem user experience, and protect Steem community users' property rights. In particular, we expect Steem users may enjoy faster, more stable Steem blockchain as the issues of (1) will not be relevant.


We notify that there will be three changes:

I. Power-down period will be reduced to 4 weeks, instead of the current 13 weeks. This change is to promote more users to stake STEEM without fearing their assets locked up for a long period and to participate in Steem activities. By creating a more friendly environment for investors, we expect this change to positively enhance STEEM stakeholders' experience.

II. Update the documentation and other key related materials necessary to secure Steem, gain network stability, honor user experience, and ensure the proper functioning of the chain and projects that are built on top of if by providing accurate and up-to-date data.

III. Seize some user accounts that participated in criminal activities by actively contributing to the threat against the Steem blockchain and/or to the theft of STEEM holders' assets.

  1. The launch of HIVE chain is not a protocol update to improve blockchain performance or security, but a hostile split action to exclude certain accounts.
  2. Some of the previous main Steem witnesses (now most of them are HIVE main witnesses) put Steem blockchain at risk by threatening the stability of the Steem Blockchain while running a hostile Hardfork version on Steem, even though their main job as main witnesses was to protect and maintain the integrity of the Steem Blockchain. See Steem Consensus Witness Statement: Softfork 0.22.8888 for more details.
  3. Some HIVE launching members decided to take away HIVE tokens of 326 Steem users' HIVE tokens and placed it in the @steem.dao account (total amount of 83.2 million STEEM, about 23% of the total STEEM supply that worth around 16.6 million USD, as of 20th May 2020) that is de facto controlled by a small group. This is a clear violation of the property rights of STEEM holders, as these HIVE members illegally transferred assets of the Steem users that were assigned at the time of snapshot (code-copy chain split time). One may find these transfer records on Hiveblocks or Hiveblockexplorer, for example, one sample screenshot is provided below:

image.png

Ironically, the very reason that HIVE witnesses got their spots at the HIVE launch was the result of STEEM token holders' voting. And it is even more disturbing that many Steem users who got their assets stolen actually had voted for more than 5 HIVE witnesses (then Steem main witnesses), but these HIVE witnesses betrayed STEEM holders who voted for them.

Note that some HIVE witnesses use the misleading word "airdrop", but it is a mere copy-chain so "snapshot" is the proper one. If a chain is to start from scratch, "airdrop" is a proper term and the chain designers may choose whatever airdrop method. However, the HIVE case is a clear copy - HIVE copied everything of Steem blockchain, such as account names, passwords, previous postings, assets, etc. What they have done is taking other users' assets after the snapshot.

  • Also note that some HIVE users use another misleading concept like “there was no HIVE before the split, so no HIVE can be taken away from Steem users.” This is categorically inaccurate and misleading - how can you transfer something that does not exist? Their blockchain record clearly shows that HIVE, HBD, and Hive Power were transferred.

Hardfork Data:

  1. Date: 20th May 2020
  2. Time: 14:00 UTC
  3. Github Code: https://github.com/steemhardfork/steemhf/tree/hf0.23

However, witnesses understand that some Steem community members may have different views regarding specifics. We reiterate that witnesses respect the importance of the Steem community, encourage Steem community discussion sessions, and fully support Steem community decisions.

Proposals may be made via SPS so that any Steem community members may suggest potential exclusion of certain accounts that were affected by the HF.

More details will be posted soon.

Steem on.

Sort:  

TripleA team (includes the current witnesses @triple.aaa, @jayplay.witness, @the707, @skuld2000.wit, @segye.witness
@zzan.witnesses = @ayogom
They are fucking Moron
J.SUN's Puppet

like done before on Hive with steem.dao where my SP seems to be in also !!!

So where is the difference, the "old Gang" on Hive does it first and now wondering why they earn back the same from JS this is paying penalties for the first case from your side.

I´m not happy with a few of the people on the list but hey the all have a chance to talk to JS about, or better send in a proposal and pray that anybody will help them.

Remember the same was happening to many of us with Hive, and imagine what chance this proposal had when acting against the stake from the "old Gang"

It´s all about a few accounts who demand what´s happening on the Hive-chain !

False equivalence doesn't hold water.

Who exactly are you?
steemit inc?
a group of witnesses?

Here are witnesses on record as respecting the sanctity of private property:

TripleA team (includes the current witnesses @triple.aaa, @jayplay.witness, @the707, @skuld2000.wit, @segye.witness
@steemhunt
@zzan.witnesses
@steem-dragon
@hinomaru-jp
@future.witness

If they run this hardfork then consider their word unreliable.

There are many misdeeds alleged of varying severity and a group of accounts who are being punished equally via funds forfeiture. Even if these wallet holders are guilty, one-size-fits-all punishment is not the way just leaders behave.

TripleA team (includes the current witnesses @triple.aaa, @jayplay.witness, @the707, @skuld2000.wit, @segye.witness
@zzan.witnesses = @ayogom
They are fucking Moron
J.SUN's Puppet

This reads like the propaganda of a state actor.

Instances of authoritarianism never differ in kind, only degree. The masks they wear may change, but there is always an authoritarian sociopath trying to sell slavery with a candy coating. Sun is just bad at this.

Some top20 witnesses are not running the new hf version yet. They better hurry, otherwise they will be kicked out by the powers in charge.

I got an alert that the HF will remove steem from accounts when I logged on. People are going to leave this place like flies. if they lose their hard-earned Steem.

A blockchain that can and does seize funds is a worthless blockchain. The good news is the reduction of the power down time.

So, i now can confirm that the power down period still 13 week, so it was a lie, the sole intention of this fork was to remove some users tokens...

I's very good that Power-down period will be reduced to 4 weeks. I think it is absolutely the number one priority.

However, witnesses understand that some Steem community members may have different views regarding specifics. We reiterate that witnesses respect the importance of the Steem community, encourage Steem community discussion sessions, and fully support Steem community decisions

No. You really don't. The last fork was/is extremely unpopular. This one will be even more unpopular. Your actions have hurt the Steem community greatly causing the exodus of many apps and many members. You are doing this for your own selfish reasons because when you look at your actions, it is apparent that you are the exact same as the old witnesses. You should admit that and move on.

Translation of the full text of this post, no comments (post comments separately)

本帖全文翻译,不做点评(另行发帖点评)。

HF23全文翻译:Steem Consensus Witness Statement : Hardfork 0.23 (Codename: New Steem) | hive

Funny... The power down period is still 13 week... I guess this hard fork had another porpoise...

Nope, its 4 weeks. I think you have to stop powerdown, and start again.

I did, still giving me 38 steem per week from my 490 SP...

It's just a guess but perhaps the power downs that were in place during the hf will have to stick to 13weeks. I canceled mine yesterday and started it again after the hf and I got 4 weeks. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will jump in and explain it properly. Again, it's just me guessing.

I also cancelled mine and started a new one, its now 4 weeks... The thing is that still shows as 13 weeks when you try to select the amount of SP to power down, its just a pretty poor job on coding i guess...

Poor coding? On Steemit? Perish the thought! [/sarcasm]

Anything beyond copy and paste seems too complicated :)

And here I thought things would go back to normal. Both Chains go their own way.

But no, both chains continue withholding funds from their users.

Withholding funds is wrong. It was wrong in HF 22.2, it was wrong when forking the Hive chain and is wrong in HF 23.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Neither does Three!

download1.jpg

Withholding funds sends a signal to the investors that their funds aren't save and can to taken away by the witnesses at any moment.

Steem (and to a lesser degree Hive) are currently showing me that my funds are not save and are only one hard fork away from been seized.

In the past all I have to fear when criticising a whiteness was a downvote. Now I have to fear that my funds are seized at the next hard fork.

The only good news is the faster power down giving me a change to get out of here ASAP.

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Wow, incredibly disturbing turn of events. The fact that Justin and friends would even consider straight DELETING user's assets that they invested hard-earned money and time into is insane and goes against every core value of decentralization. Thank GOD that the decision was made to hard fork, otherwise this project would have been a complete waste. I highly doubt anyone will ever invest in STEEM again, given that the new TRON leadership has already shown that they will steal from users that go against their wishes. What an absolute disaster.

The minnows seem to be safe, it's just the biggest investors that get their accounts wiped. Whales have always been a problem to begin with, we don't need them. :P

If you think you don't need 'whales' you are sorely wrong. Anything you are doing right now on Steem or Hive is because of whales. Anything you do on any piece of technology requires whales. You need investors to do anything.

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Yeah, that was my point actually. The post was meant to drive home the ridiculousness of the HF. ;)

Ah, sorry hehe. I know there are numerous people on here that believe we don't need whales or people with large stakes. I've seen the comment threads and it just baffles me!

Are you really happy that those hard-earned assets from the people who invested their time and money in the platform will be gone?

No, the comment was meant as satire. Ofc you need big investments to fund development, this HF ensures that won't happen anymore.

which hard earned money look on the list of accounts who will be affected, a lot of people who had taken the chance to double their funds (steem SP + HIVE HP) without doing nothing else than slap the new Investor in his face?
What about all the content creators who fill the pockets of the "Old Gang" didn´t they have the same right ?
Anybody on your side is thinking that the "old Gang" was overreacting in this and produced a huge damage to steemit, yeah but they don´t need it I know.

It´s not that nobody don´t need Investors, its about faith, behavior and good manner on this side also, and the HIVE buddies (the old Gang) throw the first stone without any substantial reason that´s the major point, nothing else matters ;)

Yeah you are right I bought STEEM after fork 😢 luckily I bought in 2100 sats

First they came for the whales but I did not speak out because I was no whale.

TripleA team (includes the current witnesses @triple.aaa, @jayplay.witness, @the707, @skuld2000.wit, @segye.witness
@zzan.witnesses = @ayogom
They are fucking Moron
J.SUN's Puppet

I´m very happy with this decision, thank you!

What we learned from the SoftFork 22.2 and Hive fork from previous Witnesses is that everyone has the right to run various versions of the software they want to run, and the value of the network is created through the participation of more people.

Hive runs the 0.23 version of the software and transferred assets held by 362 accounts to the @ steem.dao account. According to the posting of your boss, blocktrades, every fork sets its own rules, and the value of the tokens is created by voluntarily participating in a chain that people think is more valuable.

It's time to stop pointless criticism and war, and now it's time for each individual chain to focus on creating value. The Steem Blockchain will work with more people to create more value in the future. I hope Hive will be a chain that creates value in its own way.

Good luck to STEEM and HIVE.

Currently, there only are about 35 witnesses in the top 500 (not counting Justin Sun's sock puppets) who are running any of your fork versions. 93% of the top 500 witnesses disagree with what you guys are doing.

Yes. Anyone is free to create a new fork with whatever code and data they want.

But there is one key difference here, namely whether or not the owners of the accounts whose states have been altered will themselves have to go through the trouble of first getting the support to run a version with their tokens, and second to have that token listed on exchanges and to thus gain value.

While I was strongly against the Hive exclusions, at least those excluded did not have to do anything to keep their existing STEEM balances. Those who forked to Hive created a new token, and did all the work to get it listed on exchanges and recognized in order to hold value. On the other hand, if those affected by the alterations of balances included in this fork want to run a version with their funds, then granted that this code gets accepted by exchanges, they will have to come up with a different token with a different name and do all the work to give it value.

Thus it is not apples and apples. In one instance, the affected party is imposed with a significant cost in order to retain the value they once had. Wheras in the other instance, those excluded from the HIVE fork has kept everything they had beforehand.

Again, I disagreed with the exclusions, as well as the spam and other attempts to make Steem unstable. But still, this logic does not apply equally.

Has happened before though. Ethereum (ETH) is the fork and Ethereum (ETC) is technically the original chain but it did not inherit the ticker symbol "ETH" nor the listing on exchanges.

Technically, ticker symbols are no-man's land, because they exist only in social consensus and not on the actual blockchain. So it would be up to the exchanges and market data sites to decide which of the forks would get the STEEM ticker.

This hard fork is a very important event for steemit.
Hive can no longer harm steemit.
We expect Steemit and Hive to be faithful to their work.
I strongly agree this hard fork.

Hive was never a threat to Steemit. Justin Sun was the threat, and continues to be a threat as demonstrated yet again here. Hive was the solution to the threat. An imperfect solution, but as the saying goes, "any port in a storm."

The demand for a complete community split is insane, but it is being pushed by Sun and Steemit, not Hive. The campaign of censorship and arbitrary terms of service have driven out those of us who had hoped to see some sort of truce come about. But every action taken since shows how power-mad the new Steemit team has become. Anyone who chooses to support Steemit Inc. with full knowledge of these actions is complicit.

Note that some HIVE witnesses use the misleading word "airdrop", but it is a mere copy-chain so "snapshot" is the proper one.

This fork will not impact the Hive blockchain.

Also, this logic is legally flawed. Are you aware that a split or fork is legally a new asset?

The IRS classifies cryptocurrency splits as "airdrops" and as taxation events. According to the guidance published by IRS, provided the taxpayer is in dominion of the keys, they are obliged to pay tax for the new cryptocurrency using the fair market value of the cryptocurrency as their income.

You are actually not legally entitled to receiving a new asset. Not to mention if you were, the appropriate thing to do would be legal action, not theft and seizure of other assets.

By the way, I have supported every proposal to airdrop Hive.

However, the HIVE case is a clear copy - HIVE copied everything of Steem blockchain, such as account names, passwords, previous postings, assets, etc. What they have done is taking other users' assets after the snapshot.

I guess if you look at a mirror and shoot it, there is a real danger to end up at prison?

I agree with this very much.
Now we expect Steem and Hive to work in their own block chain instead of fighting.
we don't have to be negative. Let's win in our respective chains. Good luck to Hive.

Hey Hive! Don't pay any more attention to us.

we don't have to be negative

forks out 65 accounts

Ok.

"Reap what the HIVE sow"

What a happy Thanksgiving festival. :)

Become what you hate.

This is just straight theft and no excuses will cover it. I'm saddened and disappointed to see long term users support this and become part of Justins criminal legacy.

He is meant to be a business man and leader within the crypto community but instead has spent months playing around like a child and is now stealing from regular users and ruining STEEM for ever. It's name will become dirt after stealing funds from the very people that helped to build everything in the first place.

What happened with your node? I think you should be in the top. Maybe I can help.

By half of you people I'm not even sure if you are serious. I mean, you can't be serious, right?

Just out of curiosity - why is @freedom's stake being seized? What did he/she do? They have never even posted.

Seize some user accounts that participated in criminal activities by actively contributing to the threat against the Steem blockchain and/or to the theft of STEEM holders' assets.

I'm not sure what gives you the authority to seize user's Steem.

Unlikely freezing assets suspected to be acquired illegally until clarification, this is very likely to be a violation of financial laws. Please contact the proper legal authorities and consult with lawyers.

Hive and Steem are separate. Let bygones be bygones.

I have informed you that you are breaking the law.

I'm really sad everything get to this point! Pandora's box was opened even she was told not to do it!
Captura.JPG
By the way, I will upvote a proposal to return these people their funds, if any.

Keep in mind the context in which I made that quote. It was referring to the question of whether or not Steemit Ninjamined stake was Justin Sun's private property after the purchase of Steemit, or if it belonged to the community. Further, that stake was never actually moved out of any wallet by the former consensus witnesses.

In this case, the plan is to remove the stake from the wallets of the confirmed owners of the stake.

It's quite the escalation, don't you think?

Yes, I think so, and is sad.

Let bygones be bygones.

If you have seen what has happened, you know who prevented this from happening.


And we don't know who or what gave HIVE (witnesses?) the authority to freeze user's STEEM at 22.2 and seize user's HIVE after the fork. If someone can answer this, he or she may answer your questions as well.

And we don't know who or what gave HIVE (witnesses?) the authority to freeze user's STEEM at 22.2

Yes we do. Justin Sun did. It was in the terms of service of the Steemit website he owns.

D7B9E2AE092848A391115C27A6C51087.jpeg

Justin agreed that his transactions may not be completed as he did not own the Steem blockchain.

The witnesses clearly announced a temporary freeze of his transactions due to the facts that

  1. He had purchased a potentially disruptive amount of stake in a back room deal, not via the markets which would have benefitted other Steem holders and precluded him from acquiring such a massive stake due to the run up in price it would have caused.
  2. Justin had recently exercised control of founders tokens on the Tron blockchain to manipulate block producer governance.
  3. Justin had announced a migration of Steem to the Tron blockchain, even beginning to put a token exchange process in place through Poloniex.
  4. During all this had never spoken with Steem elected witnesses.

Justin reacted rather amicably to the freeze, apologizing to the community and scheduling a meeting with the top 50 Steem witnesses to clarify his plans and build the new working relationship.

Of course, that was manipulative stalling as he colluded with exchanges to utilize customer deposits to overthrow rightful Steem governance and install 20 fake sock puppet witnesses, bringing us to our present state.

So, as you can see, Justin Sun’s terms of service explicitly approve his inability to transact under HF 22.2; yet he had the stupidity to call it a criminal act.

The only criminality is that these terms of service still state that Steemit Inc. does not control the Steem blockchain, which is factually untrue. It’s the reason why their official communications always feign fake ignorance of new developments that censor, freeze, and seize the assets of Justin’s opposition, while Steemit Inc. instantly removes any dissenting witnesses from the consensus ranks.

I don't see how SF22.2 is related to HF23. When was the last time 22.2 actually had a chance of taking over consensus? About 3 months ago.

The plan here is to simply take assets that belong to others.

You could put it into an escrow account operated by a lawyer to be sold if your goal was something other than simple theft.

By the way I voted for every proposal to airdrop Hive to all.

As a STEEM witness, we support this HF. Hope changes in powerdown period and additional treatments will enhance STEEM stakeholders' experience.

Looking forward to "New STEEM".

This looks like theft to me. Hive left Steem with their own fork, copied the content and reset all wallets to zero, and then "airdropped" HIVE and HBD balances to selected wallets based on accounts meeting certain criteria. Original STEEM was left intact, and all acounts maintained their STEEM and SBD balances. Nobody lost anything. You're welcome to follow suit and fork off, leaving original STEEM intact too, but you're choosing to seize the original holdings from those accounts. That is theft.

I guess it was a correct decision to switch to hive,after
Notice this decision is already made. It's not a suggestion, it's the ultimate evidence that steem blockchain has been compromised by single entity


create hive blockchain account

Care to join Hive? Sign up free here!

you can buyout companies, copy ideas from others but you can never force free people to become your slaves.

Justin, look in the mirror.

您可以收购公司,复制他人的想法,但您永远不能强迫自由的人成为您的奴隶。

照照镜子。

You may not know well, but I think it means that the server's location is there because the Internet is connected everywhere.

I can't find Philland. Very confused

image.png

Can you show me a map of Philland?

I go there every few months for vacation.

Awesome, where the fuck is it?

Its where you and Sun will be fucking. Think about where you want that to be.

If you are not yet part of the Revolution, it is still possible to join us. Read this post to learn how.

revolution.png

Roughly 23,711,154.046 STEEM (mostly as SP) seems affected by this incoming hardfork on steem..

Sad that it has come to this.. Although to be fair sort of foresaw this on the horizon. :/

Lol you are so fucking retarded I can't believe this is actually happening.

This thread will go down in history as marking the end of the prologue of crypto-based social networks (death of steemit), and beginning of act 1 (take off of hive, twetch, etc.). So I thought I'd add my little comment here to show my children one day :-D

Signed: Swiss Custodians

I don't know. But you just can't make this up.

and I just noticed, there's no MEMO in that transfer! nobody gets to control these funds except for the receiver: bittrex!

At this point, even if the funds are never recovered by their original owners it is one of the better outcomes IMO.

I cant imagine Bittrex not executing their part. At least Justin Sunny Boy and his accomplices are not 23.5M Steem more rich! 😂😂😂 They are even to stupid to steel funds, even when they control the software hahaha

When you strike back with a worse tactic than that you are calling criminal while demonizing that act, you no longer have ground to stand on.

This shows the original action(hf 2.22) was warranted.

I can't believe you(stinc) and others that were in such an uproar about a freezing of assets could even consider this! I mean, how is this not hypocrisy to the extreme?

Some will attempt to rationalize their perspective trying to legitimize this, but it's simply reaching.

You can change your truth, but not THE truth. I can only shake my head.

You retards have been in charge just a few short months and have quickly turned this place into a dumpster fire. Nobody needs to attack your centralized ledger, you do this well on your own.

TripleA team (includes the current witnesses @triple.aaa, @jayplay.witness, @the707, @skuld2000.wit, @segye.witness
@zzan.witnesses = @ayogom
They are fucking Moron
J.SUN's Puppet

I am pretty sure that does not apply to someone who stole first. Seizure of criminal activity related assets is normal.

That being said, the only remaining point is that whether someone is involved in such criminal activity. For that part, (as always?) community will decide.

i know one account on that list that had nothing to do with everything you wrote here. he was just not happy with what is going on on steem. you know who he is, and you know why he is on that list. could you explain to others why you are deleting a small steem account, just because he wrote some comments that you don't like?

Where can I see proof that I, or any other individual on that list, participated in criminal activity? Where exactly did I cross a line?

Top Kek

Promises should apply to everyone, no?

You can check my team(@dev.supporters) statement. We did not make such promise.

We will try to protect steemians, not attackers.

The only protection i want is a blockchain that protects my funds.

Steem (and to a lesser degree Hive) are currently showing me that my funds are not save and are only one hard fork away from been seized.

In the past all I have to fear when criticising a whiteness was a downvote. Now I have to fear that my funds are seized at the next HF.

You morons are going to get so fucked. 😂
You do know your names are public? haha

Your language reminds me of xxxxxxxxxx. It seems that you picked it up from him. Guess you guys are good friends.

Im just telling you what will happen. You signed up as the spokeperson for Justin Sun. A "mouth of Sauron type character". You are his "patsy" that will take the fall once all this is over.

Best case scenario they just sue you and you lose some money but i wouldnt be surprised if they pay someone to beat the shit out of you for supporting this.
You do know many of these guys are anonymous and you just stole their money.

Your imagination is going too far, so I don't know what to say at this point.

Sounds like you volunteer to "sign up as a spokeperson" for HIVE core guys and what you got in return is that one of them, xxxxxxxxxx, in fact bullies you over there. Except that, what you got is close to zero and someone from the core takes all the credit.

Good luck with that - I guess that's what you expected and asked for, right?

I'm just telling you what happened. I do not claim to tell "what will happen", as some people who don't even know what they are doing frequently do.

This would be my last reply to you. Have fun on the other side.

Your imagination is going too far, so I don't know what to say at this point.

For your own sake, hope im wrong here.

Sounds like you volunteer to "sign up as a spokeperson" for HIVE core guys and what you got in return is that one of them, xxxxxxxxxx, in fact bullies you over there. Except that, what you got is close to zero and someone from the core takes all the credit.

I never said HIVE was perfect. Just much better then STEEM.
See, when i speak my mind i do it because i believe its the right thing to do. I expect no compensation for it and will take any consequence that might come my way for speaking out openly.
Unlike you guys that held STEEM hostage with your votes to benefit yourself in some way and got fucked in the end because of it.

Yeah, on Hive the most you can get for pissing someone off is being downvoted. You can still speak your mind without worries.

On Steem you can get your funds taken from you. Big difference.

Pay someone to beat the shit out of you? Lol are we still in grade school? You have a good sense of humor.

Its hardly grade school what will happen to you guys.

What do you mean by "you guys"? I didnt do anything lol. Good riddance.

Lol wow im scared!

Justin is just a politician. Make the promise, get into power, get support & fuck everyone over afterwards.

fuck everyone

Let's see him do it. Up the ass?

Do you like justin sun or you just want him to fuck you? Who knows

Are you seriously accusing me and all the others on the list of criminal activity? Where's your individual proofs?

This is incredible. A lot of money you're "seizing" here, I'll make sure to find someone who'll take care of you for even half of my part.

Take care of you? Searching for hitman on the dark web? Lol

That's not necessary, it's all covered by legal frameworks. You're weird.

Steemit has been leaching off from Steem community since long before Tron / Justin Sun took it over.

This upgrade is the equivalent of taking away the savings from developers that were previously doing unpaid voluntarily work for the chain because they don't work on it for free anymore.

Without a breakdown of why each of these accounts have their fund seized it's clear this list is mostly personal vandetta for any and everything from a small clique empowered by Steemit Inc ill acquired stake.

I'm almost certain the reason @likwid is on this list is because it downvoted some of @cjsdns low quality content in the past.

https://www.steemzzang.com/@cjsdns/likwid-i-ll-ask
He's made dozens of posts like this threatening me because of a disagreement on content reward.

I´m wondering why you are shining up on the list, but anyway you as a developer should have had stand out of the downvote battles, there was much more for you to downvote from BS, and all the others.
And let me tell you some there was not much guys who don´t take some money for there services they offer I remember one of them is @steemchiller and he was slapped also because he´s not agreeing with what the "old Gang" is doing to the new Investor (you know the case with his proposal?).

Maybe check out a proposal for yourself and the likwid account on steemit, or just talk to JS, your case seems a bit different from all the others to me.

Suerte ;)

So in other words, the only thing Steem devs and witnesses achieved in about 2 month is extending an array of user, change a parameter from 13 to 3 and put a major release label 0.23 on it?

Really good job! I'am really looking forward for your roadmap and the next major release!

They've been working hard making announcements :P

The launch of HIVE chain is not a protocol update to improve blockchain performance or security, but a hostile split action to exclude certain accounts.

There is no need to change any core functionality of a blockchain for a fork. Anyone can fork any chain, at any moment if they please so. This is the beauty of decentralization. If you want you can fork bitcoin right now, call it steemcoin and run it with exactly the same code, you can do that. That is the definition of open source.

Some of the previous main Steem witnesses (now most of them are HIVE main witnesses) put Steem blockchain at risk by threatening the stability of the Steem Blockchain while running a hostile Hardfork version on Steem, even though their main job as main witnesses was to protect and maintain the integrity of the Steem Blockchain. 

This is called consensus, witnesses that do not agree with certain code HAVE to run different code. This is not a hostile action, this is how consensus is achieved. If enough people run a different version, they achieve consensus and the others stay out of it. That is NOT a hostile action. Please read papers on consensus before wording something like this.

See Steem Consensus Witness Statement: Softfork 0.22.8888 for more details.
Some HIVE launching members decided to take away HIVE tokens of 326 Steem users' HIVE tokens and placed it in the @steem.dao account (total amount of 83.2 million STEEM, about 23% of the total STEEM supply that worth around 16.6 million USD, as of 20th May 2020) that is de facto controlled by a small group. This is a clear violation of the property rights of STEEM holders, as these HIVE members illegally transferred assets of the Steem users that were assigned at the time of snapshot (code-copy chain split time). One may find these transfer records on Hiveblocks or Hiveblockexplorer, for example, one sample screenshot is provided below:

Again, you can download the bitcoin blockchain to your local computer and do whatever you please with it, you can alter data, you can even remove blocks and add bogus data. You are allowed to do so. That is the freedom blockchain gives you. What you can also do is after playing around with this data, start running a node and call it Bitcoin+++ with your alterations (including changing transfers, removing assets, whatever you please). Other people may like your changes, will download your snapshot and also run it. This is the freedom blockchain gives you, there is nothing hostile with this.

However, what is hostile, is changing things and trying to participate in the bitcoin network with the "bogus data" and trying to convince other people in the bitcoin network to accept it. However, this is still legal if you want to do this. If enough people think that this is the best for the blockchain that's fine.
However, if you got 1 central entity in the chain that defines all the consensus witnesses, this qualifies like a security, and seizing other peoples shares in a security is actually against the law.

Thanks facts-cat!

It seems that you are at least presenting something logical. So let me reply briefly.

It seems that you argue that at HF anything can be done, including transfering users' assets, as long as there is a consensus. In that case, this HF has no problem - one may simply choose to not participate or run different version(s).

For "security" definition, if you would like to pursue this way, it would be fairly difficult to prove that, or disprove that HIVE is not (we all know how much blocktrade(including his alts), freedom have)

Now the problem arises from the interchange with exchanges. Since you got an existing asset, and are seizing existing funds of people, that would mean that exchanges accepting this code are also accepting the removal of funds of people outside of the scope of the actual protocol. None of the people whose funds were seized got their funds in an illegitimate way (through hacking or similar, like in the case of Ethereum). Thus, that is actually quite complicated.

In the case of Hive, a new asset was created and people got this NEW asset based on a set of rules. That is fine since no ones existing assets got altered in any way.

In terms of security, I hope you are doing your math right, the vast majority of the votes on the witnesses on the steem chain comes from steemit inc. While only 20-30% of the votes on the hive chain come from freedom + blocktrades. The problem arises if one single legal entity is able to vote in/out all consensus participants. (That's why Tron was assessed a security in a recent lawsuit).

It seems that you still don't get this part.

It would be totally fine if HIVE started from scratch. Who cares, and who may care about what the initial launchers would choose.

HIVE is not. It is literally a code-copy with all the history (posting, assets, etc). And then core HIVE guys transferred HIVE assets: see HIVE own transaction records as linked in the OP.

If what HIVE did is okay, this HF is totally fine too.


Moreover, there will be appeal process (likely via SPS) so community may change this witness decision if they would like to.


For the security part, it is not an important topic (for now, and for us) to discuss anyway - if someone wants to focus on this, he or she may pursue legal actions for it.

No, you are not getting it. It doesn't matter what Hive puts in their brand new database. If they copy in bitcoin blocks, ethereum blocks, whaleshare blocks. It's their database, they can fill it with all open source blockchain material they can.
And users can then accept to use it or not, and exchanges can accept to list it or not. But it's NEW. Even though they copied over state from steem. It's a new copy.

It doesn't matter if that past material comes from Steem. It's a new database that is filled with selective material.

Steem is an old database and you're removing material from the existing database in a hardfork.

Those are fundamentally different things.

You should then go speak with consensus witnesses on Hive since a lot of them were OK with nulling the stake of Steemit Inc several months back.

They accepted the idea to null Inc just because of consensus (regardless of the reasons), it's normal they said, but now you are preaching as everyone from Hive that taking a similar decision based on consensus is a problem?

yea,

you got it, that´s the main issue, but they literally ignore it because its better for them, its just propaganda ;)

Actually, they were not nulling it ever. The discussion was always ask Steemit Inc to null it themselves or start a new chain.

The discussion was always ask Steemit Inc to null it themselves or start a new chain.

No, we all read the leaked messages from the secret slack group.

I for one did. And voted to undo the airdrop exclusion. I would have voted to not do this exclusion as well.

If someone told me early enough.

But both Hive and Steem seem to keep there votes secret until it's too late.

It seems that several points are being repeated. Let me focus on one thing.

Say (as you claim) HIVE is new.

then is it okay to move HIVE stakes? you can see the blockchain record. If there was no HIVE, then there cannot be any transfer. But there were transfers, which means that existing assets are illegally transferred.

In fact, steem.dao account still holds these "stolen" assets.

How can you explain this?

If the move of the assets is defined on the creation of hive and everyone that joins hive knows about this. Then it is fine. This makes this a part of the rule of the system.

(Similarly as inflation rewards, or witness voting, etc).

The problem is if you change the rules after releasing a chain. Then that is problematic.

When I look at the blockchain record, the transfer occurred before Hive blockchain started. You can see the record on the steem blockchain, and the action was completed by a Tron Foundation witness

https://steemd.com/b/41818752

Not sure what difference any of that might make, but there it is

Oi, this conversation has gone in circles. New assets are new assets. I could take a picture of a billionaires USD account and give him a token I just made up out of thin air and it isn't stealing anything. Not sure why this is a difficult concept for this other guy to understand.

Hive didn't start from scratch, it originated from the need of a part of Steem community that believed more strongly than the rest in the ethos of decentralization.

For your information Steem stayed for weeks under the full control of one entity (Justin Sun) who controlled all 20 witnesses spots with newly created sock puppets voted in by exchanges users funds and supposedly non-voting Steemit's pre-mine.

Whatever else you claim it started from was opensouce code in the public domain.

Spitting blockchain into two happens all the time. I think there are four Bitcoins chains and three Ethereum chains by now.

Those new chains always took new names and applied to exchanges to be added under those new names. Effectively doubling the coin for each user. Normal thing to do.

Confiscating coins is not something not at all normal. Confiscating is setting a bad precedence.

If Steem really wanted to get rid of the users they should have powered the accounts down, blocked them from power up.

And yet, Hive should have gone that route as well: Forced power down instead of airdrop exclusion.

Steem HF23 and the Hive split are different situations because of asset continuity.

  • The HIVE hardfork did not promise continuity. It is a new token under a new name. HIVE then sought exchange listings as a new token.
  • The 0.23 steem hardfork is not issuing a new token, changing names or any such thing. The HF23 Steem blockchain will, afaik, leverage the exchange listings of the previous HF Steem. Also, continuity of stakeholder balances has been a feature of Steem hard-forks up until this particular one.

YMMV on how important one thinks continuity is important to the sanctity of private funds. I think continuity is very important.

However, this opens up a lot of interesting legal questions. For one, while people should not have their assets censored, technically, people should be able to run any fork they want.

So, what legal argument exists to say the witnesses are obligated to continue running a specific version of the code? I don't think witnesses can be compelled to run only a certain version. If they could be compelled to run a version it could open up for lawsuits all blockchains that ever forked.

This situation might indicate that blockchains simply don't offer censorship resistance unless consensus is reached by more participants than can be influenced toward a single goal.

I agree the legal ramifications will be interesting, should it ever be tested. I have my guesses on a few angles the lawyers might try, but I'm not prepared to put my thoughts about that on-chain.

Anyone who doesn't see the broad picture of what is happening here must wake up and realize as soon as possible the progressive chain of actions soon to happen (in the near future) resulting from using the Legacy Legal system to resolve a Cryptographic Currency DAO related problem.

Here is the chain of actions (I can envision the future).

Some sort of lawsuit goes forward in US courts surrounding cryptographic currency. This is actually engineered/designed by the powers that be for a specific reason.

Resulting from this lawsuit, DAOs are unfairly regulated as the public is not educated about DAO (as we are all still learning how to DAO).

Please be a responsible member of this cryptographic DAO and learn proper technology history. What happened to software as a result from people taking digital matters into legacy courtrooms?

https://bbs.fandom.com/wiki/SEA_vs._PKWARE

Please, we MUST NEVER repeat this problem.

We MUST solve democratic repos. And parties involved MUST resolve their differences for the overall good of all future cryptographic DAO technology..
WATCH THIS

DO NOT F%^$ THIS UP. IF YOU F^$% THIS UP, HUMANITY WILL BE SET BACK DECADES, IF NOT HUNDREDS OF YEARS.

The more I read this bullshit, the more I laugh. I'm not even going to bother commenting on your ignorance. Keep trashing STEEM as you're doing. You touch users accounts and your ass will get delisted on all exchanges. Good luck with your shitcoin.

Hello, can I buy your Engine Miner on Steem-engine? I have placed buy orders. thank you

I guess someone tx-ed the money (incl lots belonging to you) to some save place :)

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