Let us the Community take Steem Governance into our own Hands!steemCreated with Sketch.

in #witness-update2 years ago (edited)


As you all have probably noticed, there is a lot of discussion about the powerdown, about the fork, about Steemit Inc. stake and about the future of Steem the blockchain. There are many smart people who already said a lot about this topic, so I will link to @jesta's post about the topic which I also resteemed. I want to focus on something related but different today.

There are smart people working on resolutions to this standoff and my voice would be not much more than a repeat of their points. I rather focus on the future of Steem, regardless of the outcome of this situation. Should Steemit Inc. make an abrupt exit, I want to make sure that Steem continues.

But how can we achieve this?

With the HF 20 disaster, I created the SteemCommunity organization on Github which currently has 18 members and 8 more invited. Many witnesses and developers expressed interest in a community that furthers Steem blockchain development. But it seems, interes was not enough, without clear goals, without a structure, no one person would step up and put work in. So the last days I made a plan on how to structure this organization. A great thanks to @inertia for pushing this with me!

We need to have a plan!

Before we all start slinging code and creating things, we should think about what we as a community want. For this I created the Planners Team with the task of creating a community roadmap. They should discuss the viability of new ideas and proposals and decide on if the community pursues them and with what priority.

We need to engage the community!

To not have the Planners be an ivory tower, we have the Communicators Team. They engage users, gather feedback and bring it to the Planners. And they communicate plans and discussions, keeping the general public updated with summaries of complicated and nuanced discussions. They are our link to everyone on Steem and an important role.

We need to keep track of our projects!

No one likes abandoned projects. And for Steem to be a community where everyone loves to contribute, we have to do the dirty work of keeping everything clean and tidy. For this there are the Houskeepers Team, who keep repositories up to date, remove orphaned code and issues and watch other forks like the steemit repos for changes, so that we always have an up to date organization.

But these roles have nothing to do with coding yet?

Yes. And that is the point of it. We should think about how we want Steem to be before we start going in a random direction. And this involves everyone. Developers who are able to contribute are rare. But we have many motivated users who can make plans, discuss proposals and engage our community. And many housekeeping tasks are easily learned and a huge help to the devs we will later find.

So, I am looking for motivated folks who want to step up and do something for Steem. Your contribution matters. And the community will thank you. I would love to have people like @smooth as Planners and people like @suesa as Communicators, @inertia already stepped up as a Housekeeper. But I rather have all of you think and discuss about who would fit a role. And what roles we would need that I missed so far.

Okay, but where will we end up? What is our goal?

It is not upon me to decide the future of Steem, so I will only mention a few ideas that popped up in discussions I witnessed:

  • Create a Steem Improvement Proposal structure where the community can propose and discuss changes that can later be funded for development.
  • Create a Development Fund for Steem, maybe in cooperation with initiatives like @utopian-io or the seeminly abandoned @steemtank.
  • Find capable developers inside and outside of Steem and give them an opportunity to improve Steem.
  • Increase transparency by making all discussion public, moving away from secret slacks into the blockchain and an open for all github organization.
  • Give the small fish a voice by ensuring that everyone is informed about all proposals and changes so that more people can join the informed discussion.
  • Make Steem the blockchain move away from Steemit Inc. as the sole driver of success and decouple steemit.com from Steem via a decentralized community.

The future of Steem depends on you!

I alone will not be able to accomplish this. I can code for the blockchain, have made pull requests to steemd and will make use of this. But I am not alone in Steem. There are many smart and dedicated people here. And we all want Steem to succeed.

If you are interested in participating, please tell me. I am available in the Steem Reform Discord, in the #ideas-and-suggestions channel and depending on demand will soon create a separate server for the community (This community is now in beta here and I will soon write a separate post about it). Should you be unsure if your skills are useful to the community, talk to me and I am sure that we find something :)

And as always, tell me if you have ideas on how to improve things, roles I have missed or problems with the way something is set up. This is not a one man show, I am just the person starting it.

Payout is send to steempeak.com, an alternative frontent that is a perfect replacement, should steemit.com shut down




Communication is important, I feel like more and more happens in the "top levels" (witnesses, developers), while the user base is sitting around and just watches in confusion. I like that proposal. Working together is, in my opinion, always the better option. And I think Utopian can help the blockchain thrive - in fact everyone can.


I worked with @ned for a while, mostly "Users" is all I ever said to him, he did not have time for it then...
ever since I've been attempting to understand what the Steem Network could really be, including what would be the next generation of the internet, which I know @ned is also interested in; but at that time, I did not understand he planned to "own it" as well ;-)

Increase transparency by making all discussion public, moving away from secret slacks into the blockchain and an open for all github organization.

^^ THIS, and...

Make Steem the blockchain move away from Steemit Inc. as the sole driver of success and decouple steemit.com from Steem via a decentralized community.

^^ THIS, too!

concerning your proposed structure... the "communicators" are facing a challenging task... evaluating community feedback and presenting proposed technical changes to a wider audience will be an uphill battle and I am not going to get my hopes up about this endeavour staying mostly constructive in nature.

But it does effin need a decentralized governance model around the codebase here and steemit inc has made clear that they do not really work for the platform as a whole but for their very own limited scope of interests in it.

Oh and that "communicator" thing... I think we can all agree stinc failed at that terribly, too... it certainly can't get any worse!

If there's anything I can do... let me know!

concerning your proposed structure... the "communicators" are facing a challenging task... evaluating community feedback and presenting proposed technical changes to a wider audience will be an uphill battle and I am not going to get my hopes up about this endeavour staying mostly constructive in nature.

Communicators will be a big team that we may split into subteams. They will help filter out some of that negativity, until the negative people learn that they get ignored. Communicators will very likely be rewarded by the community with votes if they do their job well. And so I think this is a role many can fill and will have the motivation to fill. But we will certainly have problems and this structure is not the end all be all ;)

For now, finding the people who step up would be great. Stepping up yourself would be too. And discussing, spreading the word and talking about ideas is important.

Finding "Communicators" that actually understand all the myriad of issues involved, including how to code dapps...
@reggaemuffin we can talk soon. @surfyogi


I like how you think.. and you are correct.

I think this is exactly what we need, so that we are finally a decentralized community.

This makes me wonder; there's been a lot of talk about community already for a long time, but we're still relying on Steemit Inc. Is this because they have said that they are developing SMT's, Hivemind etc.? And these things that Steemit Inc is expected to deliver, is it correct to think of them as an base infrastructure that the so called 'community' can then create their dApps on top? But we don't really need to wait for Steemit Inc. to deliver the code, right? What's stopping it to do ourselves? If I got it right, that's actually what we're going to try to do with the SteemCommunity on Github.

As for myself, I don't know what kind of part I will play on this new mechanic, but regardless I will keep close eye on it, because I think this can be the thing we need when further decentralizing the blockchain and not rely on Steemit Inc. for the success of Steem.

In the past every time someone had an idea like this, the general response was something along the lines of "Yes, great idea, someone needs to do this. But I, I will trust in Steemit Inc. to do this. They have the stake, they should do this." and then Steemit Inc. said nope and the issue was forgotten.

So my hope is that now, when the fear of a Steemit Inc. powerdown and cash out is more real, there is more motivation for people to do something themselves and not rely on a magic godfather to solve all problems.

Even in this thread many appeal to Ned as the person who should or will do X and Y. Often times things that are not on their roadmap. And that makes the community lazy. So my goal is to give people hope and motivation to build something they can call their own.

@reggaemuffin I agree this timing is Genius!

JUST WHEN plans LONG in preparation have a plan and the excuse to be put into motion (steemit power down), there is created the ultimate SPARK for what really must be done ( Steem Community DAC).

I also think we can simply cut steemit account from a fork, OR create an entirely NEW BC, based on multiple others that have learned so many lessons, and give a full YEAR to airdrop across many other chains, to simply include those that would participate and contribute to a new internet, that creates a new way for a human being to exist, earn a living and contribute to a new global grass roots society, of and for, by individuals using the tools of liberty to secure their freedom and liberty.


Ned sensed right what was needed first and foremost at this point: the MVV. The SteemCommunity first needs to make explicit and agree on a Vision, a set of Values, a Mission.

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Which is why I started with a Planners role ;)

Err ... do you call "Planners" what I call "Leaders" or "Visionaries" ? :-)
OK ... but for me you can only "plan" after you have agreed on what you want to achieve, why and what are the rules you pledge to observe ... if that is part of "planning" for you, then fair enough! :-)

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Leaders and Visionaries are a sub-group of planners. Some think of the general direction, some formulate a concrete plan. But to be honest, formulating an MVV or some other visionary document needs people, so my first goal is getting these people on board :)

This is more of what we need going forward as there is far too much focus on Seem inc and what they are doing or not doing. Obviously it would be great if they could bring projects out successfully and in a timely manner but that doesn't look like it will happen and there is not much we can do about it.

What we can effect and i've seen a lot more of in the past months is community effort to organise and to create change by our selves. There have been the state of steem forums, the new onboarding tools, the rankings on the different app sites etc.... All of these are little steps but if we can keep making little steps eventually we will have covered a lot of distance.

My main gripe is the lack of communitcation we see from the top witnessess and steem inc as to what is happening and what is the plan moving forward so it's great to see that your proposal contains groups for housekeeping and communication. Communication is key for any group or organisation to be successful and it has been severely lacking since i have been on the site. I really feel that we would not be in this situation right now if there was more information and more communication from the people who are directly involved in the development of the blockchain.

Hopefully you can get more like minded people on board for your group and get the whole thing moving. I have no computer skills to join you but for any other side of it am willing to help out in whatever way i can. I want STEEM to have a big future but for that to happen we need to get certain things in place and the easiest way to do that is through a large group effort to improve it and push new development.

This is more of what we need going forward as there is far too much focus on Seem inc and what they are doing or not doing. Obviously it would be great if they could bring projects out successfully and in a timely manner but that doesn't look like it will happen and there is not much we can do about it.

Exactly this!

If you want to help out, contact me on discord and we find you a non-computery role :)

At the forefront of thinking for real solutions once again @reggaemuffin. Well done, this is exactly what we will need going forward.

Yes!!! I've been looking for a way to be of service to this community as we find ways to evolve and take things to the next level. As a creative on the blockchain for the past year, I've been involved in the music, poetry, fiction, theatre, and visual arts communities and would LOVE to help those voices be heard moving forward. I'm devoted to this community and if I can help I very much want to. Thanks so much for this @reggaemuffin. I'll HYU in discord.

looks like some great ideas here @reggaemuffin .. maybe you will come and talk about them at the Witness Chat in The Ramble (formerly Steemit Ramble) on Wednesday Jan 23rd?

Have you been following the State of Steem forums? Some of your ideas may be able to tie in there as well.

The current Rambling Radio Schedule can be found here
It's All About Community!

I have a few deadlines around that time and might or might not make it. But chat me up on discord and we can plan ahead :)

sounds like a plan

I know nothing of code, but transparency and democratization/decentralization are what one would think essential for something like STEEM/Steemit. I could understand how that can be scary (especially if STEEM is your baby), but those should be central values of the blockchain on which it floats or sinks (I'm not saying we should throw it into open sea and hope for the best, good rules built into the code are what one would think would prevent abuse, attract newcomers and prevent the sinkage).

The zero hour ninjamining and centralization are what made me lose some trust and confidence in this blockchain several months ago when I found out, and I know I'm not the only one (it takes but a Google search to see what people are saying). The worth of any (crypto)currency is measured by how much people trust it (STEEM has the added value of Steemit content creation, but I don't think this side of the value equation has lifted off yet).

Do not spook the hell of steemitinc is my recommendation, now they are keeping their steem in exchanges and not being utilized extensively for maybe newcomers and other dapps.

Must get a common idea! But I guess that for now we depend too much on steemit inc. valid alternatives must come. FOr example I can not understand how come there is not like a client you install on your pc to interact with the blockchain, like the bitcoin client. Fully decentralized

I think lack of engagement and communication and misunderstanding is the reason why we are here today I do believe not all situation is lost but had information flowed well the reasons for the power down may have been addressed before the power down itself.

however since @ned has come out to express the reason for the power down it seems everything seems to be taking shape back again however one thing I learnt from the power down is that the communities are really not a priority for now I guess cutting cost is the main focal point for @ned

I think to much focus is on what ned is doing. And what Steemit Inc. is doing. They have their stake and it seems no one will contest that.

So rather than trying to fix them, we can build a community that is build up with accountability, transparency and communication in mind.

I've read so many posts slinging mud and blame. I am really glad to read one that brings some forward-thinking solutions.

From the viewpoint of an end-user, one issue is that neither the large stakeholders nor Ned have engaged much with the community on the blockchain. (There are some exceptions)

So, it becomes a point of who will put their money and time where their mouth is and start actually engaging with the community and proving some reasons for people to feel like they do have any community influence.

Right now it's all just words.

We already have a few people in the communications team and are looking for more. Feel free to participate 😊

I'm here participating every day, with the community where it matters. That is my point.

I know. Regarding the governance model we need people who are a bridge between the community at large and the different teams. We need people who reach the users and who gather their sentiment, and inform them of ongoing discussions. We need people like you who discuss about how we as the community want such a bridge to work. And if you would like to participate in such discussions, that would be great.

How do I find this group of bridge builders? :)

Talk to me on discord here :)

It would be nice if we created a Crowdfunding website using @crowdfunder to fund projects and code that's specificially for the Steem blockchain.

I own Crowdfunder.xyz and I think it would be nice to create a crowdfunding site where the funds raised in Steem, were transaction free, and the funds generated from Steem-based projects using fiat, could then be used to fund (and promote) the actual Steem-based projects.

The money generated from non-Steem projects could go towards the maintainance of the site, and to the backers of @crowdfunder.

If you have any ideas @reggaemuffin and think a viable plan can be salvaged with @crowdfunder, please let me know.

Crowdfunding is something that works well with DApps and projects, but I don't think that it is the way to go for core development. It might be a way to fund a dev pool in the future.

Have you seen https://fundition.io/? :)

Yeah @reggaemuffin I have seen @fundition and I like their work.

I am also looking forward to the upcoming project of their mother company, @futureshock, where they promised to make it easy to create Steem-based Dapps.

As for @crowdfunder, I am very open-minded about it's development, but I want it to be used for Steem-based projects.

At the very least, I will create an online crowdfunding forum using @tokenbb, once they offer their services to the public.

If I am ever able to make @crowdfunder more than that, I'd need to differentiate it from @fundition somehow - It might be nice to make @crowdfunder a much leaner, more basic Dapp, with less art, and graphics, but just as much purpose.

You are asking for a voluntary tax.

Well, can you get Steemit Inc, haejin, or freedom to pay?
Maybe freedom would be willing to pay and still be anonymous. Perhaps through delegation or fundation.

I would consider it, but prove to me that you can do it.
Try to implement this. https://steemit.com/steemit/@socky/introducing-the-hand-shake-and-how-it-can-revolutionize-steem-blockchain

So far nobody has the ability to program it (I mean that they can't code in C++). Can you program in C++?

I personally could implement this handshake but that is besides the point.

Currently we don't yet need developers, we need governance.

Coding in C++ is no black magic, we have people who can code in it and others who could learn. But finding them is useless if we have no vision for them to work with.

That is reassuring. I'm finding that other witnesses don't know how to program in C++.

I'll make a deal with you. I have found some people that would vote you as witness if you can code the handshake and get it implemented. It is not much witness votes about 100 million vests. I would give you my vote for doing this, but I already vote you as witness. f you could pull it off, I would certainly post about your good deed and encourage others to vote you as witness. You could name it something else or name it after yourself. Just imagine 5 years from now and many millions of users are using the thing that you created. It won't be some off-site tool that nobody uses. It would be something that everyone uses. They will always remember you.

I've pitched the concept to other witnesses and they think that it would give value to STEEM. The problem is that they couldn't program it. I don't think you would get any push-back from witnesses as the use of the handshake would be optional and does not change the functionality of the social media system or change the currency. I'm sure that Steemit Inc would welcome software upgrades that witnesses have reviewed and then add that software change to the next fork.

I know that it is likely a long time before another fork. As long as Steemit Inc accepts the completed code for implementation on the next fork, I will consider you effort a success.

To be honest, right now you would have to pre-fund me with $100.000 for me to consider starting to develop this over all the other things I think are worthwhile doing.

I see that the handshake is useful, but I don't see what it solves that the escrow service does not solve. Also how do you go about failure cases? Say the buyer sends a pending tx and then the seller sends the goods. The buyer cancels the tx and gets the goods. Sounds bad.

Or other way around the buyer sends a pending tx, the seller tells that goods are on their way and the buyer releases, but then the sender lied.

The handshake sounds fancy in it's success case but I can't see how it gives security for a failure case.

I think you are focusing too heavily on on the concept of escrow. This is not something that requires a 3rd party and is not an escrow. Please, go back an read my post a few more times to let the concept sink in. This is simply a mechanism that protects the sender from sending the wrong type of currency, incorrect amount, or incorrect address used. It is a simple hold placed on the pending transfer. That is it. details of the pending transaction would show up in the deposit wallet. Think of it like a memo that sends 0.001 STEEM. It would send a memo to the deposit address and include details of the pending transaction.

In the future, STEEM will become something that you can use at starbucks, walmart, or the gas station. There needs to be a way for the sender to verify that he/she is sending the currency to the correct address, the amount is correct, and the type of currency (STEEM vs SBD) is correct. I can picture it now. The merchant would have a 2D barcode of their wallet address. I make a payment and start the handshake. There would be a screen that the merchant has set up that shows the memo. we can verify it manually or the merchant could have some simple software that verifies the transaction details.

You know, that system already exists with credit cards but is optional. Sometimes when you go to make the transaction, the details of the pending transaction are provided and you have the choice to continue. The handshake is inevitable. Eventually it will come whether you program it or someone else programs it. The question is if you are going to be the one that takes credit for creating it or will it be someone else?

I think such a feature does not need to be in the blockchain itself. Steemit.com has it, Steem keychain has it. And if you have a qr code, the company providing the qr knows it is correct and you can verify it with your frontend that asks for confirmation.

You have completely missed the point

This is simply a mechanism that protects the sender from sending the wrong type of currency, incorrect amount, or incorrect address used. It is a simple hold placed on the pending transfer. That is it. details of the pending transaction would show up in the deposit wallet. Think of it like a memo that sends 0.001 STEEM. It would send a memo to the deposit address and include details of the pending transaction.

Sounds like a confirmation mechanism.

What the handshake gives you is a blockchain proof of the seller confirming that the tx is well formed for whatever purpose that means. And I don't see much value in that so far.

But feel free to make a point as to why this is the next killer app.

It would be even better for all of us on Steemit to see the Witnesses and Ned and his steemit.inc team work together, rather than in opposition.

Sure, that would be great, but I rather not depend upon it happening.

If there is any truth to this, could explain why Ned is doing what he is doing...

I think what we really need is one of the witnesses, one outside of the top 20 , to become a bridge between the witnesses and potential contributors. I wrote about this last month. One dedicated to contingencies that the community can pledge work, delegations and/or computer resources to, both during contingency planning, in order to set up the tools needed 'just in case', and to scale up at the moment when things go horribly wrong.

As I wrote in that post, I would gladly pledge hours to such a coordinator.

A different thought I've been playing with is creating a reboot infrastructure consisting of:

  1. An arangodb database with an up to date patched state of the STEEM blockchain, basically containing the state STEEM would have if:
  • STEEM had been RSHARES only.
  • STEEM had been Bid bots free
  • Self-vote and self-vote by delegation won't have counted as voted.
  • Blog posts and comments kept only for the last 4 weeks.
  1. A new, simplified, arangodb backed blockchain that can start from an agreed upon snapshot that the witnesses see fit.

This could be one of many contingency measures. If things go wrong, boot up the new blockchain that would allocate STEEM-REBOOT (STMRBT) to top authors and investors, yet not to any of the pre-(miners).

The Arangodb backed solution won't be a permanent solution, but it could buy witnesses and non-STINC devs some time if the time ever comes for witnesses to collectively switch from STEEM to STMRBT.

I completely agree moving away from steemit is going to be beneficial in the long run for steem. I've personally already switched to steempeak.

I'm worried that a lot of the problem here is the lack of communication from ned, no one particularly knows his intentions and it is causing fud, potentially more than necessary.

Personally, I'm not against him selling his stake simply because a fork would make the new chain into what bitcoin cash is to steem, it'll divide the community and there will be investor confusion. We might never recover from that. But we can recover from a huge sell-off, in the short term we'll be worse off but in the long run, we will be a truly decentralised blockchain. I also think if he sells his stake it would mean the github repo should be made public.

A couple of things for you to take into account. Number one and foremost is the simple fact that not all people are coders, I have looked at git-hub, it may be where a lot of the coding and such is done for steem blockchain, but as just an average computer/social media user it is a mess. It is hard to understand from an outsider view. Discord/steem chat, not everyone likes the chat rooms. Myself I do not mind using them and popping into them on a pretty regular basis, there are people who do not want to or who can not due to language barriers.

It is a simple process to use most web browsers standard translate functions to read a post, you may lose a little but not much.

So if you are going to truly be an organization that is for and includes all steemians regardless of tech or language barriers you will need to have a steemit blog page whether hosted in steemit or on busy or steempeak or one of the other front ends, you need a steem blockchain blog where people can go and leave a comment, an Idea, or ask a question, and receive a response even if it is an automated bot response such as thank you we will get back with you soon.

I have completely given up asking witnesses for much help because all they do is refer a person to git-hub. Please keep this in mind.


I know that most people are not coders. Which is why my proposal has an explicit communicators role that is intended as a bridge to non-technical users. Communicators will post on chain and in chatrooms and wherever else the users are and keep them informed. And also relay user issues back to the developers so not every user needs to touch github :)

If you are interested in helping make sure that we do not loose the average users, it would be great to have you in the communicators team!

I am glad to see that there will be a contact point for the regular social user. At this time I will have to bow out until I have made up my mind about the entire situation. I still think what has been happening this past week is wrong on so many levels, and I am pleased to see that you at least are taking a different direction than most responses I have seen to this.

Thank you! There are already a a few people expressing interest and we will see over the following days if that will be enough :)

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Hi @reggaemuffin,

This is a great initiative and if we are to be thought of us a truly decentralised platform, we need more than one core development team (currently Steemit Inc).

It may be worth speaking to the users on the @dolphincouncil as they are likely to be receptive to your idea and provide some support.

Unless we find some very generous core developers, willing to work for free or a few upvotes, we also need to think about how we fund core development. For example, taking a portion of rewards form anyone using delegated steem to upvote (controversial.. yep!). But ultimately, there needs to be some form of funding.

I have joined your discord channel and will keep listening.

Thanks for your efforts,

Interesting discussion

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An excellent selection in the divergence from STINC to STEEM based UI.

The team at @steempeak has been fervently distinctive in that difference since day 1 and is an excellent source for independent sustainability.

Positive engagement!

Currently floating an idea about a Sword Of Damocles type of solution that could be used at Witness discretion if Steemit INC were to drop its services below a reasonable treshold. I'd be very interested in your thoughts on this @reggaemuffin . I'dd be happy to work on it under the SteemCommunity banner.

Ah, feck, just noticed this community governance is Steemit INC backed. So far for the possibility to place the interests of the community above those of Steemit INC if or when such a choice becomes real and important.

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Oh dang we just say the beneficiary... wow. Thank you, you're very kind!

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